mab@druxp.UUCP (BlandMA) (05/23/85)
RUNEQUEST has a good fumble table that includes things like: drop your
shield (no more parrying), drop weapon, break weapon, helmet slips over
your eyes (reduces your attack and parry chance for several rounds),
impale nearest friend, etc. There are also separate fumble tables for
weapon attacks, natural attacks (claw, bite, etc.), and fumbled parries.
Fumbles can be entertaining and deadly. One fighter in our group now
feels pretty lucky against trolls (don't ask him about ogres, though).
In his first melee against trolls, the first troll to attack him fumbled
("hit self for maximum damage") which knocked the troll unconsious
(trolls do lots of damage). In his second melee against trolls, the
first troll to attack him fumbled, and rolled the same fumble result!
I'm sure he can't wait to fight more trolls!
One of the Gloranthan cults, I forget which one, has a Rune spell called
Fumble. It causes the victim of the spell to fumble his next attack.
There is also a magic weapon in one of the RQ2 scenario packs: when
used properly, it causes your opponent to fumble (players in my campaign
who are reading this can forget they saw this).
--
Alan Bland ihnp4!druxp!mab AT&T-ISL Denver, COfaustus@ucbcad.UUCP (Wayne A. Christopher) (05/23/85)
Well, just in case anybody is interested in fumble and critical tables, here is mine: (Format it with tbl and *roff) I'd like to see any other interesting ones that people have... Wayne ---------- fold, spindle, and mutilate here ---------- .TS allbox, center; l lfB lfB l l l. Roll Critical Fumble 0 - 10 Sever finger / toe Trip and fall 11 - 20 Break 2 - 8 ribs Drop weapon 21 - 30 Break limb Throw weapon 31 - 40 Sever limb Break weapon 41 - 50 Break spine Twist wrist 51 - 60 Break neck / cut throat Twist ankle 61 - 70 Smash face Break finger 71 - 75 Sever nose / ear Hit self 76 - 77 Poke out eye Break arm 78 - 79 Rip voicebox Get nosebleed 80 - 81 Pierce heart Bump ally 82 - 83 Smash liver Lose weapon to opponent 84 - 85 Gash open stomach Become dizzy 86 - 87 Collapse lung Fall and break neck 88 - 89 Cave in skull Hit ally 90 - 91 Rip out guts Roll again twice 92 - 93 Sever buttocks Roll again thrice 94 Pierce pancreas Hit self twice 95 Scramble brain Hit self and ally 96 Rip head off Hit two allies 97 Sever genitals Critical ally 98 Split body Critical two allies 99 Sever at waist Critical self 00 Smash head Critical self and ally .TE
euren@ttds.UUCP (Leif Euren) (05/28/85)
One netter writes: >Well, just in case anybody is interested in fumble and critical tables, >here is mine: )Sever finger or toe, Break 2-8 ribs, Break limb, Sever limb, Break spin, )Break neck or Cut throat, Smash face, Sever nose or ear, Poke out eye, )Rip voicebox, Smash liver, Gash open stomach, Collapse lung, Cave in )skull, Rip out guts, Sever buttocks, Pierce pancreas, Scramble brain, )Rip head off, Sever genitals, Split body, Sever at waist, Smash head. and )Twist wrist, Twist ankle, Break finger, Break arm, Get nosebleed, Fall )and break neck. Some time ago I thought of posting a "Blood and Gory"-table to this newsgroup as an irony to all critical-hit tables. I think it would have been worse than the above, but not much. But I certainly didn't believe I would read one seriously written here. (sensitive persons better hit 'n' or 'j' now) flame() { THIS IS NOT THE SORT OF STUFF I WANT TO READ IN THIS NEWSGROUP. CUT IT OUT, ALL OF YOU. BETTER YET, HIT YOURSELVES WITH TRIPPLE DAMAGE! } Leif Euren euren@ttds (...mcvax!enea!ttds!euren)
req@warwick.UUCP (What is your full name (for news article signatures):) (06/03/85)
Xpath: warwick snow snow ubu In article <754@druxp.UUCP> mab@druxp.UUCP (BlandMA) writes: >One fighter in our group now feels pretty lucky against trolls[...]. >In his first melee against trolls, the first troll to attack him fumbled >("hit self for maximum damage") which knocked the troll unconsious >(trolls do lots of damage). Is his a reasonable result? What kind of mistake could the troll have made that would have resulted in it knocking itself unconscious? Perhaps someone out here knows enough about Fighting -- I'd guess that it was using bare claws, but what if it was using a sword? Any swordsmen out there care to comment? I find this sort of thing often with pre-packaged systems - the results may well be reasonable and well-thought-out, but if the reasoning isn't given, he tables may as well be arbitrary. Even using Rolemaster, I have asked people who have actually fired bows/wielded swords about some results. So how about a Fumble Table and/or combat system from the heart of the SCA, or anyone else who understande these things? [Perhaps this sort of discussion really belongs in FRPList; mail me with any ideas & I'll include them --R] - Russell -- ... mcvax!ukc!ubu!snow!req (req@warwick.UUCP) Striving to promote the interproduction of epimorphistic conformability ....
quint@topaz.ARPA (Amqueue) (06/05/85)
In article <187@snow.warwick.UUCP> req@warwick.UUCP (Russell Quin) writes: >In article <754@druxp.UUCP> mab@druxp.UUCP (BlandMA) writes: >>One fighter in our group now feels pretty lucky against trolls[...]. >>In his first melee against trolls, the first troll to attack him fumbled >>("hit self for maximum damage") which knocked the troll unconsious >>(trolls do lots of damage). > >Is his a reasonable result? What kind of mistake could the troll have made >that would have resulted in it knocking itself unconscious? >Perhaps someone out here knows enough about Fighting -- I'd guess that it was >using bare claws, but what if it was using a sword? Any swordsmen out there >care to comment? >So how about a Fumble Table and/or combat system from the heart of the SCA, or >anyone else who understande these things? >[Perhaps this sort of discussion really belongs in FRPList; mail me with any >ideas & I'll include them --R] > - Russell What if the person ducked, and the troll didnt have a good balance... he could swat himself in the head. The Runequest (tm) fumble tables are effectively from SCA... the people who made up runequest were(are?) in the SCA. for a while I was training to be a fighter... and nearly knocked myself out while trying to hit a pell! Im sure a real opponent would be much more dangerous than a stationary tree. /amqueue
nrh@lzwi.UUCP (N.R.HASLOCK) (06/07/85)
> In article <187@snow.warwick.UUCP> req@warwick.UUCP (Russell Quin) writes: > >In article <754@druxp.UUCP> mab@druxp.UUCP (BlandMA) writes: > >>One fighter in our group now feels pretty lucky against trolls[...]. > >>... the first troll to attack him fumbled > >>("hit self for maximum damage") which knocked the troll unconsious > > > >... What kind of mistake could the troll have made > >that would have resulted in it knocking itself unconscious? > >...care to comment? > > What if the person ducked, and the troll didnt have a good balance... > he could swat himself in the head. ... I find the idea of a fighter hitting himself in the head for max damage extremely unreasonable. On the other hand I can easily see a combat error in which the defender ducks, the attacker spins, and hits a co-attacker in the head for max damage. An alternative, given a single attacker is that he over extends and falls to the ground, face down within range of as many armed members of the defending group as possible. i.e. everyone gets a free whack before he starts to get up and can either get another or run away while he is getting to his feet. Remember, falling down in heavy armour can knock unconcious or break bones or dislocate joints. Take your pick. Nigel - Mumbling Madly in English.
laceyrm@ucbmiro.ARPA (Robert Michael Lacey) (06/11/85)
(I haven't posted to this group before, so allow me to introduce myself. My name is Bob Lacey, I have fought in the SCA, play FRP's, practice martial arts and goof around.) On the subject of fumbles without weapons, it is not hard for a human to hit him/herself when swinging on an agile foe. WITH a weapon, it is even easier to hit yourself, due to the lack of feedback that you have when you fight barehanded. Nothing strange about a Troll or other big clumsy monster taking itself out with a bad swing. /Rabis M'aa
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (06/11/85)
In article <171@lzwi.UUCP> nrh@lzwi.UUCP (N.R.HASLOCK) writes: >I find the idea of a fighter hitting himself in the head for max >damage extremely unreasonable. Depends on the weapon. With some it's entirely possible, even likely. Bullwhips and nunchaku come to mind, also morningstars. -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI "How goes the rat race?" 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. "The rats are winning." Santa Monica, CA 90405 -- Paul Lynde (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
don@umd5.UUCP (06/12/85)
In article <467@ttidcc.UUCP> hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes: >In article <171@lzwi.UUCP> nrh@lzwi.UUCP (N.R.HASLOCK) writes: >>I find the idea of a fighter hitting himself in the head for max >>damage extremely unreasonable. > >Depends on the weapon. With some it's entirely possible, even likely. >Bullwhips and nunchaku come to mind, also morningstars. How many fighters do you know who use those weapons? Most fighters prefer something simple, like a nice big axe or a huge sword.. (Besides, a morningstar? How would you hit yourself in the head with a spiked club?) -- --==---==---==-- "Space, the final frontier ..." What ?!!? ^ No more ?!? But it's a frontier of frontiers !! --==---==---==-- ___________ _____ ---- _____ \ //---- IDIC ----- _\______//_ ---- ---------- ARPA: umd5!don@maryland.ARPA BITNET: don%umd5@umd2 SPOKEN: Chris Sylvain UUCP: {seismo, rlgvax, allegra, brl-bmd, nrl-css}!umcp-cs!cvl!umd5!don
tomk@ur-laser.uucp (06/14/85)
As far as fighters fumbling. I always have them roll again when they
have rolled a 1. If someone else from the party is next to them I
count the roll as a hit against the friend. If they are fighting alone
versus a monster I look at the roll and and see if they would have hit
themselves. If they did I then allow their adversary to have made an
additional automatic hit. The players at least seem to believe it.
They had previously found it hard to believe when the dwarf had embedded
a hammer in his own face.
--
--------------------------
Tom Kessler {allegra |seismo }!rochester!ur-laser!tomk
Laboratory for Laser Energetics Phone: (716)- 275 - 5101
250 East River Road
Rochester, New York 14623hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (06/14/85)
In article <572@umd5.UUCP> don@umd5.UUCP (Don Preuss) writes: >(Besides, a morningstar? How would you hit yourself in the head with a > spiked club?) All together now ... the description of a morningstar in the AD&D books is _wrong_. A spiked club is a mace. A morningstar is a spiked ball on the end of a chain on the end of a stick. BTW, I had a chance to handle a morningstar at the L.A. Renaissence Pleasure Faire a few weeks ago. A _very_ unbalanced (hence difficult) weapon. To really use it well would require enormous strength of wrist and forearm, not to mention lots of practice. Imagine an inexperienced fighter picking one up on the field of battle. He attempts to wind up by swinging his forearm up and back ... the ball on the end of the chain swings around ... crunch! -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI "How goes the rat race?" 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. "The rats are winning." Santa Monica, CA 90405 -- Paul Lynde (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
mjc@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA (Monica Cellio) (06/15/85)
From: tomk@ur-laser ? (Tom Kessler) > As far as fighters fumbling. I always have them roll again when they >have rolled a 1. If someone else from the party is next to them I >count the roll as a hit against the friend. This implies that a better fighter hits his friends more often than a bad fighter does. Do you really want this effect? -Dragon -- UUCP: ...ucbvax!dual!lll-crg!dragon ARPA: monica.cellio@cmu-cs-cad or dragon@lll-crg
robg@mmintl.UUCP (Robert Goldman) (06/17/85)
Responding to a comment about it being difficult to hit yourself when fighting unarmed: Yes, true, but as someone who spent several months on crutches this year (sprained knee, torn ligaments & cartilege, water on the knee), from Tae Kwon Do, I would say it's VERY easy to `fumble' practising the martial arts. It seems to me (although I'm not an authority) that the more `hard' or `external' the school, the more likely you are to do something like this. Best, Robert Goldman
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (06/21/85)
In article <181@lzwi.UUCP> nrh@lzwi.UUCP (N.R.HASLOCK) writes: > >Yes, you can hurt yourself with your own weapons. > >However, I do not believe you can do maximum damage to yourself by a >fumble, with the weapon in your hand Let's try this scenario: Inexperienced fighter swings morningstar crosswise and down at opponent ... opponent manages to get out of the way ... momentum carries the swing through and around ... ball swings around ... crunch! No? Maybe not. I've never tried it. >P.S. I too have fought SCA style, I have also examined real plate >and mail. I concede superior expertise, having little practical experience with these things myself. (I did manage to thrash myself pretty well with a bull-whip once. I don't recommend the experience to anyone but hard-core masochists). -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI Common Sense is what tells you that a ten 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. pound weight falls ten times as fast as a Santa Monica, CA 90405 one pound weight. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
nrh@lzwi.UUCP (N.R.HASLOCK) (06/25/85)
In article <484@ttidcc.UUCP>, hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes: > > BTW, I had a chance to handle a morningstar at the L.A. Renaissence > Pleasure Faire a few weeks ago. A _very_ unbalanced (hence difficult) > weapon. To really use it well would require enormous strength of wrist and > forearm, not to mention lots of practice. > > Imagine an inexperienced fighter picking one up on the field of battle. He > attempts to wind up by swinging his forearm up and back ... the ball on the > end of the chain swings around ... crunch! > -- As I remember the beginning of this discussion, it was 'how to you justify an attacker rushing up to you and hitting himself for MAXIMUM damage. I agree that there are weapons that will do damage to a careless or inexperiance user. I still find it unreasonable that a fighter, using his own weapons against himself, can inflict MAXIMUM damage. In Jerry's scenario above, I can not justify more than 1d6 damage. This is because I believe that MAXIMUM damage requires an extended arm swing of 180 degrees or spinning the ball at speed around the end of the handle, before a smooth delivery to the target. This should deliver 12 to 18 damage. Yes, you can hurt yourself with your own weapons. However, I do not believe you can do maximum damage to yourself by a fumble, with the weapon in your hand P.S. I too have fought SCA style, I have also examined real plate and mail. -- -- {ihnp4|vax135|allegra}!lznv!nrh Nigel The Mad Englishman or The Madly Maundering Mumbler in the Wildernesses Everything you have read here is a figment of your imagination. Noone else in the universe currently subscribes to these opinions. "Its the rope, you know. You can't get it, you know."
okamoto@ucbvax.ARPA (Jeff Okamoto) (08/06/85)
While on the subject of fumbles, I thought it would be amusing
to relate this incident that ACTUALLY occurred(sp?) in the
Chaosium's house campaign with Sandy Petersen as GM.
The situation: I and several others are in the Mari Mountains in
Pamaltela. After a meeting with the Cacodaemon (who mostly ignored
us), we had heard of a group of oppressed peasants who are
systematically robbed of goods. We decided to become fighters for
justice. Anyways, we set up a system of guards around one of
the villages to watch for these "exigers".
I now quote from the Campaign Log*:
But on the tenth day of training, Freezeday, Stasis
Week, Storm season in the Theyalan calendar, Pamalt-day, 7th
week in the Rainy season (winter), tragedy struck. On the
evening of that day one of the guards was going up to
relieve one of his comrades when he discovered his headless
body. His sword had been broken, and only the hilt half
remained. We all raced up to investigate. The body showed
no signs of torture nor did it bear any fire marks. Tracks
were found of a single person wearing armored boots. After
a quick discussion, Norac went alone to track the intruder.
He followed the tracks for about two hours until he
heard the sound of metal on metal. He listened carefully,
but he couldn't tell the direction.
Suddenly out of the darkness jumped a huge figure,
wearing full plate and wielding a bastard sword and a
hoplite shield. The design on his shield was a spider, and
his helmet also bore a spider. The man swung, but Norac
parried with his iron bastard sword. Norac's return swing
was an utter failure. Not only did he fail to hit his man,
but he hit himself in the stomach, dropped his weapon and
lost his next attack and parry![1] On the man's next swing,
Norac died.
But not for long! Norac called on Orlanth to heal him
and put his sword back in his hand. Orlanth granted his
request at the cost of three points of POW. The man swung
again. Norac mised his parry, and the blow landed on his
unprotected body, on his head. He died again.
But again the mighty Norac called on Orlanth to heal
him, and again Orlanth granted the request for three more
points of POW. The man swung, but Norac parried, and the
blow failed to connect. Norac stood up instead of trying to
swing from the ground.
The warriors fought back and forth, Norac parrying with
his sword, the man with his shield. For a minute they swung
at each other until the man slipped through Norac's guard
and thrust his blade into Norac's abdomen. As it withdrew,
Norac felt a burning sensation, and he looked down to see a
nasty green coloring starting to tinge his body. Norac
swung again, but he was so distraught he lost his next
attack and parry.[2]
While Norac stumbled around, the man stepped back,
resting. He said, "Do you surrender to Iul? I have the
antidote to the poison!" Norac considered, and shook his
head in the negative. Iul swung and despite Norac's parry,
wounded his right arm. Norac's return swing bounced off
Iul's shield.
Now Iul took his sword and pushed it behind his shield.
When he withdrew it, Norac could see it was again coated
with a nasty green coating. While he did this, Norac con-
nected solidly, but it bounced off Iul's armor.
_________________________
[1] Fumble #00, roll three more times of table.
[2] Fumble, lose next attack and parry.
Iul then swung with his newly poisoned blade, but Norac
parried the blow and it failed to hit him. Norac's return
swing was a dismal failure, and he lost his next attack.[3]
But while Norac recovered, Iul stepped back and rested.
Then he swung again and connected, despite Norac's parry,
and hit him in the head. Norac's return hit again bounced
off Iul's shield. Then Norac felt the poison hit him. He
successfully resisted the poison[4] but still felt its
effect[5]. Iul swung again and hit Norac in the abdomen
through Norac's sword. Again he died. And again he called
on Orlanth to heal him completely. Orlanth replied that he
would bring him back to life and remove the poison that had
not taken effect, but not that poison that had already
affected him. It cost Norac seven POW for this miracle.
Iul again rested, while Norac finally began a spell,
Bladesharp 5. It went off while Iul was still resting.
Norac then stood up. Iul swung, but Norac parried. Norac
tried an aimed blow to the head, but he missed. Iul swung,
and Norac blew his parry. He dropped his sword again[6].
This time he didn't wait. He called on Orlanth to bring him
back to Mistvale with his sword. Orlanth granted this mira-
cle for six POW, thus leaving him with a POW of 2 after
starting the combat with 21!
While this debacle was going on, the rest of us went
back to Mistvale. There we found Norac, looking like some-
thing the cat dragged home.
_________________________
[3] Another fumble.
[4] 16 potency.
[5] He took eight points of general hit point damage.
[6] His fourth fumble!!
*: This log, which I keep from notes taken during the gaming session
is now some 200 pages long, single-spaced.
How many of you have had days like this?
The New Number Who,
Jeff Okamoto
okamoto@BERKELEY.EDU
..!ucbvax!okamoto