riddle@im4u.UUCP (08/22/85)
> An interesting article (from AP) discusses Dr. Thomas Radecki's study > of violence in television, and, incidentally, other places. Some examples > of his concerns: ... > > "Games - 'There is no doubt in my mind that the game Dungeons and Dragons > is causing young men to kill themselves and others. This game is one of > non-stop combat and violence.'" ... > > I wonder if Radecki could come up with a single case where he can demonstrate > that D & D contributed to a killing or suicide? I'm no fan of the culture of violence, but the case for linking D&D with suicide seems to be overstated. Interested readers can take a look at page 18 of today's New York Times. It seems that a group of fundamentalists in Connecticut is trying to get the local school board to ban Dungeons and Dragons from the schools, on the grounds that D&D caused a 13-year-old boy to commit suicide and is the work of the devil to boot. The kid's friends tell reporters that it wasn't D&D that made him kill himself, but drugs. Chalk another one up for the fundamentalists' grip on reality... --- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.") --- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech}!ut-sally!riddle riddle@ut-sally.UUCP --- riddle@ut-sally.ARPA, riddle%zotz@ut-sally, riddle%im4u@ut-sally
guy@h-sc1.UUCP (alfred guy) (08/23/85)
>> "Games - 'There is no doubt in my mind that the game Dungeons and Dragons >> is causing young men to kill themselves and others. This game is one of >> non-stop combat and violence.'" ... >> >> I wonder if Radecki could come up with a single case where he can demonstrate >> that D & D contributed to a killing or suicide? > >I'm no fan of the culture of violence, but the case for linking D&D with >suicide seems to be overstated. Interested readers can take a look at page Not being a D&D player myself (gasp, blasphemy!) but only a hack/rogue fan who is interested in his game's roots, I didn't pay very close attention to the details of this article (the one I'm about to tell about) when I first read it, that's why I'm a little vague. However I distinctly remember reading about some parents who sued a high school teacher, the school district, and some frp company, because they claimed that their young son committed suicide in response to having a curse laid upon him during a D&D game. It seems that the kid was in a program for high intellectual achievers, part of which including teaching the kids D&D, and having them play games in the school. They lost the case, and if anyone in the Boston area wants to read the article, it is posted on the wall of the Science Fantasy Bookstore on JFK street, because that's where I read it. Hope this adds to the discussion, despite being undetailed. -- "But why do you hate me?" --Lord Foul "Because you're ugly!" --Thomas Covenant -alfie-
lkk@teddy.UUCP (08/23/85)
In article <449@im4u.UUCP> riddle@im4u.UUCP writes: >I'm no fan of the culture of violence, but the case for linking D&D with >suicide seems to be overstated. Interested readers can take a look at page >18 of today's New York Times. It seems that a group of fundamentalists in >Connecticut is trying to get the local school board to ban Dungeons and >Dragons from the schools, on the grounds that D&D caused a 13-year-old boy >to commit suicide and is the work of the devil to boot. The kid's friends >tell reporters that it wasn't D&D that made him kill himself, but drugs. >Chalk another one up for the fundamentalists' grip on reality... I personally don't see how drugs are any more likely to make someone kill themselves than D & D is. Both are ways of finding alternate realities. Some people use drugs (or play D & D) because their everyday reality is unpleasant (while others have different reasons). These people might kill themselves because their (perceived) life stinks, but drugs are unlikely to actually cause that. Drug use and D & D playing were (it is likely) BOTH symptoms in this case. -- Sport Death, Larry Kolodney (USENET) ...decvax!genrad!teddy!lkk (INTERNET) lkk@mit-mc.arpa
hutch@shark.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (08/25/85)
In article <1198@teddy.UUCP> lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) writes: >In article <449@im4u.UUCP> riddle@im4u.UUCP writes: >>I'm no fan of the culture of violence, but the case for linking D&D with >>suicide seems to be overstated. Interested readers can take a look at page >>18 of today's New York Times. It seems that a group of fundamentalists in >>Connecticut is trying to get the local school board to ban Dungeons and >>Dragons from the schools, on the grounds that D&D caused a 13-year-old boy >>to commit suicide and is the work of the devil to boot. The kid's friends >>tell reporters that it wasn't D&D that made him kill himself, but drugs. >>Chalk another one up for the fundamentalists' grip on reality... > > >I personally don't see how drugs are any more likely to make someone kill >themselves than D & D is. Both are ways of finding alternate realities. Some >people use drugs (or play D & D) because their everyday reality is unpleasant >(while others have different reasons). These people might kill themselves >because their (perceived) life stinks, but drugs are unlikely to actually cause >that. > >Drug use and D & D playing were (it is likely) BOTH symptoms in this case. >-- >Sport Death, >Larry Kolodney While drugs (and roleplay) can be used to "find alternate realities" their most effective uses are extremely different in most cases. If a 13-year old, by definition a very unstable personality in the throes of change, is using psychoactive drugs, then the drugs are very likely to make any perception that "life stinks" worse. This is especially true of drugs like cocaine, which gives incredible downs to go along with the spectacular highs, or alcohol, or just about any depressant. Roleplay is a method for learning coping strategies. Sure, any decent game is going to have a lot of purely fantastical stuff that isn't directly useful. But, while the kid is playing the game for the fantasy, at the same time the game process makes it necessary to learn to communicate well, to express ideas clearly, to think and plan ahead, to see past the superficial appearances, to try different strategies. Roleplay lets a kid make mistakes that aren't fatal, that aren't final and irretrievable, and that is a very useful tool for kids. Mistakes with drugs are often fatal, final, and not particularly useful tools for anyone who doesn't know what they're doing. Roleplay is a game. Drugs are no game. Don't even pretend to equate the two. Hutch
ekblaw@uiucdcs.Uiuc.ARPA (08/26/85)
Here, here, Hutch! I agree!
My high school created an 'alternate reality' club (mostly composed of D&D
players and readers of science-fiction, of which I am both). Some parents
started screeaming that we were learning how to escape reeality, and that
this knowledge would lead us to believe that drugs were not bad and we would
start taking them (how they arrived at THAT 'pearl of wisdom' I've never
figured out). Our advisor, however, was quick to our rescue and gave a
most convincing case in favor of D&D and science-fiction while still showing
his disgust of drug-users. He won the argument.
His main point was that D&D helps students learn strategies and how to cope
effctively in difficult situations without panicking or giving up. Drugs,
on the other hand, was a form of surrendering to the pressures of life
and admitting weakness in the face of adversity. I don't see how anybody
can claim that drugs and D&D accomplish similar goals.
Robert A. Ekblaw, ekblaw@uiucdcs.
"I don't need to smoke, drink, or snort. I'm addicted to life and living
free of pain."
- Curtis Strange.