wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (11/23/85)
This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough
crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply
will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly
and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and
partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL!
To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside
the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam,
suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing
live dragon into dragon steaks.
Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of
this device?overlord@nmtvax.UUCP (11/25/85)
In article <> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: >partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > > To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside >the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, >suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing >live dragon into dragon steaks. > >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? Andrew, you of all people!! We've got two LASER printers. Neither laser is powerful enough to cut (burn) through paper. To get enough light intencity to use as a weapon, the player probably couldn't hold on to the rod. Remember that a laser outputs colinear light on a SINGLE frequency. It would probably affect very few things (unless it was VERY high powered). Now if you want a "star wars" laser-blaster-gadget or a Star Trek phaser type weapon then you limit the number of people in the world that know how to make one. Or it could require more than just a light spell..... maybe a light spell and a fireball spell for a blaster weapon. For example: only a MU who had studied this kind of "magic" could even know how one could POSSIBLY be made. Then the MU would need the assistance of a master Gem Cutter (see the DMG) to actually make the rod and cut it right. Also you would need a ROD of ruby (or whatever) since most greedy (read average) people would want the most for their money, an uncut ruby would probably be cut into a gem stone; not a rod. To get a rod you would probably have to get a large enough UNCUT ruby for the master gem cutter to cut for you. Is this enough trouble to go through? From here you can probably make up any further limitations that you want. Good luck. Alan Kerr New Mexico Tech -- ...{convex,ucbvax,gatech,csu-cs,anl-mcs}!unmvax!nmtvax!overlord ...{purdue,cmc12}!lanl!nmtvax!overlord
scifi@ukc.UUCP (I.L.Sewell) (11/25/85)
Distribution:net In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough >crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply >will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly >and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and >partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > > >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? Only the fact any charachter would not have the skill , learning or intelligence to make one ( unless he just came out of a Space Opera game) A minor point but that shouldn't worry most D&D games. IAN SEWELL I got drunk last night Whats your excuse.
ccs020@ucdavis.UUCP (Kevin Chu) (11/25/85)
> > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough > crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply > will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly > and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and > partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > > To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside > the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, > suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing > live dragon into dragon steaks. > > Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of > this device? Even if you could build your ruby-pulse laser, it wouldn't be strong enough to do any of the things you describe. All your making is a high powered flashlight. Also, any character that can come up with a gem large enough to make a laser, probably doesn't have to campaign anymore. -- -- Kevin Chu -- !{ucbvax,lll-crg,dual}!ucdavis!vega!ccs020 -- ucdavis!vega!ccs020@ucb-vax.arpa
kay@warwick.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (11/25/85)
In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? Yep. Restrict it (for a start) to a society with a tech. level sufficient to allow 1) Optical-quality polishing 2) half-silvering and 3) production of optically-pure corundum and the ability to form it into rods. Given that 3) requires rather a lot of know-how and energy (oxy-hydrogen flame for fusing the stuff - this is how they produce synthetic corundum rods - can't remember the name of the process) I suggest you need around an equvalent Earth year technology figure of about 1950. 1) and 2) are rather easier, but still not simple. This assumes you are doing it by the good ole sweat-of-yer-brow techniques, rather than magic. If you have a magical society, then there's very little I can suggest apart from considering the effect that such a device would have on your society: you can't have that sort of thing lying around all over and expect to keep a quasi-mediaeval society for long. Basically, I'd forget it: the thing's just too damn powerful (but there again if it's a D&D (TM) campaign, that shouldn't stop anyone). Kay. -- "Be careful: the system is complex and chaotic, though it has many attractive features..." _The Pot-holes of the Yorkshire Moors_ ... mcvax!ukc!warwick!flame!kay
abgamble@water.UUCP (abgamble) (11/25/85)
> > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough > crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply > will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly > and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and > partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > > To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside > the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, > suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing > live dragon into dragon steaks. > > Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of > this device? Sure. I would treat this the same way I treat automatic weapons and nuclear bombs. If a character wishes to invent some such technologically advanced device, I allow him to roll percentile dice on the following table. 01-99) The idea doesn't occur to your character 00) Roll again Seriously though, it's highly unlikely that any medieval character would ever discover lasers. And besides this will prevent a lot of senseless arguements about whether or not this gaget will actually work (ie how does a light spell *really* work) -- - Bruce Gamble (abgamble@water.UUCP)
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (11/25/85)
In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough >crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply >will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly >and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and >partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > > To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside >the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, >suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing >live dragon into dragon steaks. > >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? The obvious restriction is the extreme precision required to properly shape and polish the crystal (especially if you're going to use a perpendicular end. Parabolic is easier). This would require a lens grinding capability far beyond the technology of the usual quasi-medieval D&D setting. That means this has to be a magically created item, probably of fairly high level (perhaps an artifact of the gods?). In terms of using the item, all the usual cautions about lasers would apply. Watch out for mirrors, polished shields, etc. Glass would probably be unaffected but might distort the beam. Fire-resistance would mitigate heat damage, but blindness might still result (two saving throws? one for fire, one for blinding if hit in the face). Also, the item would probably be pretty fragile. Crystal lasers are finicky things. Even a small scratch on either reflecting surface would probably put it out of action. It would have a pretty good chance of shattering if dropped, struck, or hit with sudden temperature change. That's what comes to mind immediately. Interesting idea. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp(+)TTI The more I work with C, the more I 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. appreciate the simple elegance of Santa Monica, CA 90405 FORTRAN. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
ramsay@kcl-cs.UUCP (ZNAC440) (11/26/85)
In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough >crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply >will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly >and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and >partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? Yeah. It's a bloody great anachronism. I suppose whichever character invented it had the principles involved appear to him in a dream. :-) R. Ramsay <And sneaking along last...>
geoff@ISM780B.UUCP (11/26/85)
> This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough > crystal [... description of primative laser ] > To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside > the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, > suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing > live dragon into dragon steaks. > Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of > this device? Yes, DON'T ALLOW IT AT ALL (Can you say Play Balance? I knew you could!). Do you really want a 1st level spell to kill a dragon? Ok, Ok, If you want a techno explanation, consider how a laser really works: The light bounces back and forth Zillions of times before exiting the laser, right? BUT the range of a light spell is quite small (~30ft radius?), as a DM, I would rule that the light exceeded it's range before getting anywhere. (I might let you use it to slice paper 8^) ). The idea isn't terrible--I might let you use such a device to focus a _lightning bolt_ so as to cut prison bars, but using a light spell to kill dragons? Not a chance in Hell. Maybe as a very powerful magic item (i.e., one that can't be produced by non-magical crafts) it would be reasonable, since it's just a Techno description of a Wand of Lightning Bolts. Personally, I prefer less mundane descriptions in MY magical world. In this world, Physics just aren't the same. For example, gravity is `caused' by the attraction the Earth has for matter originating on the Earth, and magic is MAGIC (not `sufficently advanced technology'). Magic items work because they are `inhabited' by the spirits of various (usually dead) creatures (e.g. a magic hammer is inhabited by an ogre spirit). It's really a lot more fun that way, you get to Role-Play a lot more, (There's a fighter in my champaign who has to sink nearly all of his treasure into fancy sheaths for his very vain sword--or the sword will sulk and refuse to be magical.) This limits the amount of rules lawyering too, since the players can't argue for consistancy with the real world, only for consistancy _within_the_fantasy_ world. Questions like `does an arrow hit by an "enlarge" spell in mid flight lose or gain momentum?' have no relevance, hence aren't a problem. I've digressed enough, if you want a techno-based magic system, go ahead and let someone mass produce laser cannon for the masses, as for myself, I'll pass. Geoffrey Kimbrough -- Director of Dangerous Activities -- INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Santa Monica California. {decvax!vortex || ihnp4!allegra!ima}!ism780b!geoff If I can be of any help, you're in worse trouble than I thought.
kimcm@olamb.UUCP (Kim Chr. Madsen) (11/26/85)
In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? Yes, don't allow such a ding, unless your campain is run in a world which is similar to ours in the late 20'th century!!! If you campain is run in the normal AD&D universe which somewhat represents the age 800-1200, you should think about what happens if a character states that he or she would like to manufactor a telescope, you should remember that even though glass was invented and one had the oppotunity to shape it, the principle of putting two convex lenses together forming a telescope must be known. When the principle is known its rather easy to reproduce the item, but the chances for one of you characters even with INT 18 to discover the principle is verrry small. BTW: Telescopes was invented about 1250, but if you allow your characters to invent the laser in a time period (roughly) equal to year 800-1000 in Earth's history you might as well invent gunpowder (the rawmaterial is present), guns, cannons and other technological items - say what's wrong about creating a machinegun!!! (-; Always keep game balance in mind, and make the campain consistent a player roaring about with a laserblaster would be invulnerable and what monsters do you plan to face him/her with. If you decide to allow the laserblaster anyway, make it very unstable due to missing technology, which means is has a high risk of malfunction or backfire (explode between the hands of the player applying it!) As not to make it a superweapon. Kim Chr. Madsen kimcm@olamb.uucp
hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (11/27/85)
In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough >crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply >will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly >and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and >partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > > To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside >the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, >suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing >live dragon into dragon steaks. > >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? Several problems. First, it requires very sophisticated and expensive techniques to grind corundum. Second, it has to be ruby, and it has to be pink, not deep red, and it has to be uniformly colored and without any internal flaws which will diffract the light, and it has to be fairly large. By the way, emeralds are NOT corundum. Garnets, sapphires, rubies and some other odd (low-grade) greenish and yellowish stones are corundum. Assuming you luck out and find a suitably large, properly colored, flawless chunk of crystal, which will already be a roughly hexagonal cylinder, THEN you need to polish and cut the thing. Corundum is the second hardest naturally occurring substance. You will have to use diamond dust, and diamond saws, to cut the stuff. It's fairly brittle and doesn't cut well with a chisel (but it CAN be done along cleavage lines). Getting a proper 5-degree planar cut on one face is easier said than done. It requires precision engineering techniques which don't necessarily exist in a medieval mileau, though they can be put together well enough in a rennaisance mileau. Assuming your ref is merciful and grants you a lasing-crystal. The light stuffed into the crystal has to be very bright. You don't want to make the crystal itself the source of light as this will prevent the lasing effect. The lasing effect from a ruby laser is a pulsed effect, and should not be maintained for too long because the crystal will overheat and shatter. The Light spell will probably not work (brightness equivalent to a torch) unless you can convince the ref that you should be able to make the full light output come out all at once. Laser light is very dangerous to the eyes. It can cause blindness, as cataracts, burned optic nerves, or detached retina. It won't cut very reflective things, like many dragons' scales, and (best of all) the ruby laser light is invisible. Ruby lasers lase in the Infrared. So in order to see what you are zapping you'll need infravision, and a smoky or hazy atmosphere, which will also reduce the effectiveness of the laser. Hutch
b2@magic.UUCP (Bryan Bingham) (11/27/85)
> In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of > >this device? I would say such a device is too hard for the even the wisest wizards and greatest technicians of the most advanced civilization in my mileau to construct. By themselves, that is. Such an item, or an item with similar powers ( destructive narrow light beam ) could certainly be made by the gods, and given a working model it would be no great feat for an archmage to have one made by a supernatural artificer such as a Drin. However, there are far better ways to use magic to make more generally useful and powerful devices, so I don't think any mage in my campaign would be interested in making such a device even if they had heard or read about it. I agree with another poster that it would be easier to make low power lasers, perhaps as as a by-product of optics research done at large Colleges of Magic, where sage/scientist types can work together with magicians to build experimental machinery to study natural and supernatural phenomenon. After all, even we don't have lasers small enought and powerful enough to be used as hand weapons. b2 ihnp4!bellcore!b2
john@frog.UUCP (John Woods, Software) (11/27/85)
> In article <> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > >partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > ... a master Gem Cutter (see the DMG) to actually make the rod and cut it > right. Plus, the MU's belief in ornamentation being important to magic would possibly result in him carving the side of the rod, creating enough scattering so you couldn't properly pump the laser... On the other hand, I heard of someone in another campaign who took a lead-lined map case, cast Continual Darkness on a handful of rocks, dropped them into the map case, and voila! A "flash-dark"! -- John Woods, Charles River Data Systems, Framingham MA, (617) 626-1101 ...!decvax!frog!john, ...!mit-eddie!jfw, jfw%mit-ccc@MIT-XX.ARPA Out of my way, I'm a scientist! War of the Worlds
philj@tekig5.UUCP (Phil Jansen) (11/27/85)
> In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > > > > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough > >crystal ( ruby, sapphire, . . .), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. > >Polish one end perperdicularly . . . > >Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > > > > To use, cast a light spell . . . > >The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, . . . > > > >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of > >this device? > > Several problems. . . > > Hutch In addition to the problems Hutch mentions (technical difficulties when making this laser), there is another important one. WHY would your character decide to build a laser? Is she going to wake up one morning and say to herself "Gee, I wonder what would happen if I took a big ruby from my jewelry collection and turned it on a lathe and polished and silvered one end and cut the other at a funny angle and flashed some light on it?" Of course it's possible, but I find it hard to believe somebody would think of doing all that, even if everything worked perfectly. I know of people who tried to invent gunpowder the same way. "Well, I'll take some brimstone and some saltpeter and charcoal in *these* proportions . . ." They had no reason to decide to do that. As a GM, I won't let my players get away with that unless they have a good reason. MAYBE they could do something if they found a time-warped copy of "The Anarchist Cookbook" somewhere, and then translated it correctly. Besides, ruby lasers are horribly inefficient. You should build a Carbon Dioxide laser ;-) Phil Jansen -- Phil Jansen
tim@k.cs.cmu.edu (Tim Maroney) (11/27/85)
Provided that you have some way of knowing this will work in the first
place, the obvious way to make the carborundum and shape it is with a
Polymorph Any Object spell. You could find out how to do it by evoking any
of the demons who give "Knowledge of Sciences" as one of their boons. (See
any medieval grimoire.) The light source could be a shuttered receptacle of
some sort with multiple Continual Light spells cast within it.
-=-
Tim Maroney, Electronic Village Idiot, CMU Center for Art and Technology
tim@k.cs.cmu.edu | uucp: {seismo,decwrl,ucbvax,etc.}!k.cs.cmu.edu!tim
CompuServe: 74176,1360 | CMU. Tomorrow's networking nightmares -- today!hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (12/01/85)
In article <678@k.cs.cmu.edu> tim@k.cs.cmu.edu (Tim Maroney) writes: >Provided that you have some way of knowing this will work in the first >place, the obvious way to make the carborundum and shape it is with a >Polymorph Any Object spell. You could find out how to do it by evoking any >of the demons who give "Knowledge of Sciences" as one of their boons. (See >any medieval grimoire.) The light source could be a shuttered receptacle of >some sort with multiple Continual Light spells cast within it. >-=- >Tim Maroney, Etc Tim, while this would work in a Chivalry and Sorcery game, it would not be consistent with what most people play. Further, many people would find your suggestion unacceptable, not because the idea is a bad one in game context, but because any medieval grimoire or pseudo-medieval grimoire would give names that just come TOO CLOSE to names that COULD work. Or to names that the players might BELIEVE could work, which is close enough. Remember that it is wise to avoid the plague of Fundamentalists. I do tend to think that there would be problems even coming up with the idea IN A MILEAU which is lower-tech than early industrial revolution. In a contaminated mileau, or in a high-physics magic school, the chances are good that the IDEA could be gotten. In such a case it wouldn't be nearly as difficult to do the job. By the way, a letter mentioned that it is impossible to construct a hand-held laser which would do decent damage. Baloney, I've SEEN one. Ed Kline made one, although he normally doesn't carry the battery pack with him because it weighs 25 or so pounds and it only holds enough juice for a few shots. A visible light laser is used to locate the target, and a second gas laser shoots an IR beam. Hutch
kay@warwick.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (12/01/85)
In article <1658@hammer.UUCP> hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) writes: >Garnets, sapphires, rubies >and some other odd (low-grade) greenish and yellowish stones are corundum. No no no... garnets aren't corundum. They're silicates. Kay. -- "Be careful: the system is complex and chaotic, though it has many attractive features..." _The Pot-holes of the Yorkshire Moors_ ... mcvax!ukc!warwick!flame!kay
tim@k.cs.cmu.edu (Tim Maroney) (12/02/85)
Steve, your message confused me at first. I did not see why using Polymorph
Any Object would be inappropriate in a D&D game. Then I realized you were
ignoring this point in favor of pursuing a disagreement. Fine, but I wish
you had been clearer; should I take it that you feel the Polymorph is an
appropriate means of fabrication?
I find your objection to consulting a demon of science peculiar. In what
way is it inconsistent with normal AD&D play? There are the spells to evoke
the spirits needed, and presumably there are books containing their names
and summoning instructions; the reason such books are not mentioned
explicitly is presumably because they are not, strictly speaking, magical
items. Obviously any user of Cacodemon would have a book containing the
names of the demons he is accustomed to evoke; they would probably be listed
in his spellbook.
The other objection is even stranger; I thought I understood what you were
saying, but then I read on. Do you mean that all magic that smacks of
authenticity should be avoided because it is psychologically dangerous, or
because it is liable to draw the wrath of fundamentalists? If the latter,
then I would suggest you should not spend your life trying to conform to how
narrow-minded dogmatists would like you to behave. If the former, I doubt
that there is any danger, except to an extremely suggestible or highly
unstable person, from simply playing a magic user who uses such spirits. It
would be a mistake to trace every step of an evocation during play, but even
if you did so the most likely result would be boredom. I have never been in
a game where the referee would have you do this; you would simply gather the
necessary components, state that you were casting the spell, and make your
success or failure roll. I fail to see the psychological danger; and I
should mention that I do have experience with "real" invocations and
evocations.
I dealt with the origin of the laser idea separately; basically, all one
would have to think is that heat and light are connected (an obvious idea
even in a medieval or even Bronze Age milieu, since all light except
moonlight and starlight is associated with heat), and that perhaps very
bright light could generate enough heat to be useful as a weapon. Pursuing
this idea, one would evoke the demon and discover the details of the device.
I would very much like to hear more about the portable laser weapon you
mentioned. I believe you are telling the truth about it; I'm just curious.
I doubt, though, that you have seen it cut through live flesh, which
requires an awful lot of power. Further, I hardly think that a few wounding
shots from a 25-pound weapon gives the sort of killer weapon that referees
have to be paranoid about. A tenth level magic user could do significantly
better with his magic missiles and fireballs. Now, if we were talking about
building a .357 (which a magic user of mine did once, making a copy of one
he found -- well, stole, if you want to get technical), I could understand
the paranoia....
-=-
Tim Maroney, Electronic Village Idiot, CMU Center for Art and Technology
tim@k.cs.cmu.edu | uucp: {seismo,decwrl,ucbvax,etc.}!k.cs.cmu.edu!tim
CompuServe: 74176,1360 | CMU. Tomorrow's networking nightmares -- today!oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev) (12/03/85)
In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough >..... > To use, cast a light spell ( normally level 1 ) to originate from inside >the crystal. The crystal will concentrate the light into a cutting beam, >suitable for slicing prison bars, drilling holes into adamantine, or slicing >live dragon into dragon steaks. > >Could anyone give me some suggestions for play restrictions on the use of >this device? Yes, as a matter of fact! 1) The power you ascribe to this device is improportionate and unfounded. If only in the interests of Game Balance, I as a GM would severely trim the device's applications and power level. 2) HOW will your CHARACTER know about a coherent light source? If I were to even contemplate the use of such device in a game, I'd make the character spend MANY years researching. Meanwhile other characters in the group will have achieved a better fire power through the normal game means. 3) Assuming you DO make the device, I'd restrict all attacks with it to be made on the MU table REGARDLESS of the user's class. Or, I would use DEX modifier and STR modifier to arrive at the LEVEL to use regardless of the user's level. Ofcourse, the saving through vs. spell AND vs. death magic apply. May be breath weapon too. To be hit by the full effect of the weapon object has to fail ALL saving throughs.. 4) As for slicing dragons, I'd set the damage to the same value as damage done to vampires and such by a regular LIGHT spell, without the AC reduction and without the TO HIT penalties. That would make it 1d4 per Light Spell..... Don't you think for most applications MAGIC MISSILE will do as good or even better job? In fact I'd be tempted to make it 0 points damage, with possible temporary blindness IFF you do a placed hit attack on the eyes of the opponent. This also goes for the CONTINUAL LIGHT. So, what you MIGHT be allowed in my Universe would be a type of a wand that fires kind of a magic missile that does not guarranty an automatic hit. If you whant a laser weapon - harness the PRISMATIC SPRAY! -- Disclamer: My employers go to church every Sunday, listen to Country music, and donate money to GOP. I am just a deviant. +-------------------------------+ Don't bother, I'll find the door! | "VIOLATORS WILL BE TOAD!" | Oleg Kiselev. | Dungeon Police |...!{trwrb|scgvaxd}!felix!birtch!oleg --------------------------------+...!{ihnp4|randvax}!ucla-cs!uclapic!oac6!oleg
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (12/04/85)
> By the way, a letter mentioned that it is impossible to construct a > hand-held laser which would do decent damage. Baloney, I've SEEN one. > Ed Kline made one, although he normally doesn't carry the battery pack > with him because it weighs 25 or so pounds and it only holds enough juice > for a few shots... Yes, and I've seen a hand-held people frier; it was the business end of a 440V high-amperage power cable. (I've never seen it work in the capacity I just mentioned, but I imagine it would do a good job.) You could indeed hold the end of the cable in your hand. So what? Something with a 25-pound power pack is not "hand-held" in any realistic sense, particularly if the pack is only good for a few shots. I assume that because it was good for so few shots, the issue of cooling was simply ignored; put a really heavy power pack on it and cooling will become a serious issue, requiring still more non-hand-held support gear attached to the "hand-held" weapon. All that energy has to go somewhere, and lasers are not very efficient: most of it comes out as heat. -- Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP (12/05/85)
In article <880@nmtvax.UUCP> wildstar@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew Fine) writes: > > This is a device I thought about for a possible campaign. Take some rough >crystal ( ruby, sapphire, emerald, but it has to be carmorundum , glass simply >will not do), and cut it into a cylindrical rod. Polish one end perperdicularly >and silver it. Polish the other end at about a five degree angle, and >partially silver it. Result: LASER CRYSTAL! > I have a host of objections to this, some of which are technical, and others more along the line of how the game is played. I'll briefly harp on the technical side before going on to the more interesting reasons: 1) A crystal laser amplifies light of only one wavelength, so the amount of amplification is directly related to the beam path within the crystal and the original light. As even daylight has not too much light of, say, 3000 Angstroms, (red, I believe) the path length must be large. But a long beam path means all the energy of the laser travels through the crystal many times, back and forth, leading to excessive heating of the crystal. The heat would likely distort the crystal (or melt or vaporize it) before cutting power is reached. 2) The heat produced by such a laser causes the crystal to expand radically. Silver (and most other metals) have radically different expansion ratios, so the silvering would be strictly one-shot. Also, firing a crystal laser twice within an hour usually results in breaking the crystal, because of problems in cooling the interior. 3) The surfaces must be precisely cut, and the gem must be very near perfect. Given a medieval culture, no-one could cut the surfaces without magic. (no screw-lathes, remember?) Using magic (like polymorph) certainly wouldn't create a perfect crystal with perfect surfaces unless the caster said so. The caster probably doesn't even know what an atom is! So the maker of the crystal is not medieval. There are more, but you get the idea. More importantly, why should such a thing be found in the game? Here are some good reasons against it: 1) Magicians are already better than that. The L18 mage who polymorphs up the crystal already fires 9 magic missiles with a L1 spell. 2) Darkness stops it, period. Too easy. 3) People know about fighting Medusae already. That'll really up your life insurance. 4) Shatter will break the crystal. 5) The Arduin spell Skorzandon's Mirror would kill the user of the laser, NO SAVE. 6) Publicly displaying a multi-inch rod-shaped jewel will give you a clear understanding of the meaning of the term "Thieves' World." And so on, but you get the idea. Now, here's a few arguments from the referee's point of view: 1) Either decide to have technology, or don't. If not, don't let the party be the only ones to invent it. If the party can build one, then the demons they stole the idea from will have LOTS of them. Why not (from the demons' point of view) just give the party one and tell them it's an artifact? 2) How much damage will it do, anyway? Not enough for instant death, and there are excellent reasons for thinking none at all. And do you really want to have to calculate refractory indexes and specific heats for dragon scales and roc feathers? Let's not get carried away. Tell them to make up a spell, build a wand, or do anything within the game, but not try to make Traveller weapons unless the referee has specified the campaign will have them. --fini-- Eric McColm UCLA (oo' - kluh) Funny Farm for the Criminally Harmless UUCP: ...!{ihnp4,trwspp,cepu,ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!mccolm ARPA: mccolm@LOCUS.UCLA.EDU Quotes on the Nature of Existence: "To be, or not to be..." -Hamlet (Wm. Shakespeare) "I think, therefore I am." -R. Descartes "<Gleep!>" -Gleep (Robt. Asprin)
hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (12/06/85)
In article <2388@flame.warwick.UUCP> kay@flame.UUCP (Kay Dekker) writes: >In article <1658@hammer.UUCP> hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) writes: >>Garnets, sapphires, rubies >>and some other odd (low-grade) greenish and yellowish stones are corundum. > >No no no... garnets aren't corundum. They're silicates. > > Kay. Are you absolutely certain? The gemologist at the Gem Mountain mines in Montana, where I spent 3 days this summer digging up sapphires, told me that the sugar-garnets I found were corundum, but so low-grade as to be nearly useless except as "pretty rocks". (Yes, I did also find sapphires.) Hutch
hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (12/06/85)
In open reply to Tim Maroney, Yes, I do in fact believe that a Polymorph Object spell would work for shaping a laser crystal, assuming one had a lump of ruby which was of sufficient size and grade. "Permanency" might have to be cast as a means of keeping the stress of laser-firing from reverting the crystal. >I find your objection to consulting a demon of science peculiar. In what >way is it inconsistent with normal AD&D play? It is inconsistent because the AD&D rules don't define any such thing. Of course, anyone who has read Chivalry and Sorcery, or who has ever encountered the concept from reading in musty old tomes about medieval magic, would realize that such an idea makes an interesting variation. The Cacodemon and related spells are indeed appropriate for that kind of operation. However, I doubt STRONGLY that it would be socially accepted to practice this type of magic, because of the side effects which should occur when the summonings are botched. >The other objection is even stranger; I thought I understood what you were >saying, but then I read on. Do you mean that all magic that smacks of >authenticity should be avoided because it is psychologically dangerous, or >because it is liable to draw the wrath of fundamentalists? Here we get into the fuzzy area which makes all the fundamentalists so nervous. I strongly advise NOT using names of demons or spirits which are taken from any kind of medieval sources. In fact, the AD&D books use names which, though powerless to compel, were once believed to have the power to compel. The reasons are these: If a fundamentalist group is going to be able to get something banned because it is "witchcraft" then it will be precisely because they can show that actual names of things which are commonly classed as diabolic spirits are being used. THAT would give them the ammunition they need to toss out the whole thing. Also, we do not want to make things harder for our players. If someone were to play in a game of mine, and if I were to allow this sort of summoning, and that person were to later on become a fundamentalist Christian, I would have to deal with the fact that they considered me to have dragged them into a type of sin. I do not wish to do this, and I don't think anyone else really wants to. There is the remote possibility that the names actually do have some power to compel, or that the players will think that they do, ESPECIALLY during the roleplay. Remembering the nature of the things being called on and the dangers traditionally associated with calling on them, it is better to either use a completely fictitious construct which is devised to be benevolent rather than malevolent, OR to simply not have them in the game. >I fail to see the psychological danger; and I >should mention that I do have experience with "real" invocations and >evocations. I hope I made my point clearer. I realize that not everyone will consider my reasons to be good ones. The question of whether or not the device would be invented at all is kind of silly. Aristotle used a focussed-sunlight weapon to burn the ships of invading Spartans. The principle of making sunlight come together into a "fire-ray" is a fairly obvious one. The use of a ruby crystal to make a laser might be decided by the fact that rubies are obviously fire-related gemstones; the alchemetic research would "reveal" them to be the appropriate gemstone for a fire-ray. With respect to Ed Kline's hand-held laser gun: In fact, I don't think it will cut living flesh, or for that matter, most kinds of dead flesh. It might give a bit of a burn though. As has been said elsewhere, a heat-laser doesn't do as good a job on tissues where there is a lot of water circulating around to take away the heat. The real danger is that it can damage the retina of the eye, resulting in LOTS of pain and permanent blindness. As far as "real" deathray guns go, one limitation on making them has been the idea that the power supply has to be re-usable. I don't think this has to be the case, and I bet that one could use a high-energy flash chemical reaction to trigger a laser-type weapon. Hutch
kay@warwick.UUCP (Kay Dekker) (12/10/85)
In article <1690@hammer.UUCP> hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) writes: >Are you absolutely certain? The gemologist at the Gem Mountain mines >in Montana, where I spent 3 days this summer digging up sapphires, >told me that the sugar-garnets I found were corundum, but so low-grade >as to be nearly useless except as "pretty rocks". Yep, 99.8% certain: I remember them as being complex silicates, and, to come back to the original point, the YAG (in "YAG laser") stands for (if I remember correctly) Yttrium Aluminium Garnet. Sounds like you had fun this summer. Kay. -- "Be careful: the system is complex and chaotic, though it has many attractive features..." _The Pot-holes of the Yorkshire Moors_ ... mcvax!ukc!warwick!kay
franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) (12/10/85)
In article <1691@hammer.UUCP> hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) writes: >Aristotle used a focussed-sunlight weapon to burn the >ships of invading Spartans. That was Archimedes. Aristotle was more into writing books. Frank Adams ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka Multimate International 52 Oakland Ave North E. Hartford, CT 06108
hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) (12/19/85)
In article <861@mmintl.UUCP> franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) writes: >In article <1691@hammer.UUCP> hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) writes: >>Aristotle used a focussed-sunlight weapon to burn the >>ships of invading Spartans. > >That was Archimedes. Aristotle was more into writing books. Oops, so it was, how embarrassing, grovel, cringe, blush. Hutch
dturner@imagen.UUCP (Alai) (12/20/85)
> In article <1691@hammer.UUCP> hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) writes: > >Aristotle used a focussed-sunlight weapon to burn the > >ships of invading Spartans. > > That was Archimedes. Aristotle was more into writing books> 6 of one 1/2 doz. of the other. a light spell and a focuss lens would work. somthing like a tube with a lens at one end and a light spell at the other. now as long as i have you atention i would just like to say one or two things. first , i liked the oringel idea . i think that if you are going to shoot someone elces idea down the least you can do it sudjest a nother way of doing it. and besides just beacuse somthing works one way on our world dose not meen it is the same ever wear. thats why it is called fanesty. tell me what you think. ttfn. -- If you push somthing hard enough it will fall over -fud's first law . Name: David Turner Mail: 6259 Rainbow dr. San Jose , Ca 95129 AT&T: (408) 725-1974 UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!dturner