cs111olg@ucla-cs.UUCP (02/25/86)
[The line-eater is back! ......] In article <2560@genat.UUCP> phoenix@genat.UUCP () writes: >>One onther game to consider: Champions. >> >>Another SHRPG (SuperHero Role Playing Game) is: Villians and Vigilantees >There is also "Champions"'s sister game, called something like "Golden >Age of Champions", which deals with the less ultra-high-powered heroes >of the '40's. I am uncertain whether Hero Games has released it yet, YES. I almost bought it at L.A.'s Orccon'86 week-two ago. >but my fiance played-tested it at a north-eastern US sf-con a while ago. >The illustrations are by the fan-artist, Chris Cloutier. Champions and Golden Age of Champions are compatible with Justice, Inc. and Danger International (a 30's cops and robbers and James Bond-type games respectively). Hero Games claims ALL their games are compatible includins Fantasy Hero. Anybody tried to mix fantasy with SF and SH? Any comments? And let's hear it for V&V!!! A game where NOBODY EVER dies and you move your ENTIRE movement allowance at once (everyone is where they want to be in the combat. EVERY ATTACK is from behind!:-). A game where the mix of powers makes NO logical sense (a spell-using flying amoeba character, a character with ice AND flame powers, other silly randomness). A game where one can legally roll up a monstrously powerfull character and a mostrously wimpy one (how does a ~1000 hp, ~5000 power, ~400-500 armour, super-flight, power-blast and 20 points of invulnerability sound?That's what you get if you happen to get more than one animal/plant powers whicich add another 5-6 powers to the existant ones...). We had discarded a few characters like that in the name of game balance as we have discarded the characters who were even frailer than "normals"... Actually, V&V (just like ANY OTHER GAME) can be fun when you have a GOOD Game Master run a WELL THOUGHT OUT scenario for a group of CO-OPERATIVE and CO-OPERATING GOOD players. Role Playing depends on players, NOT on the Game System. It's nice when the System does not get in the way of a long-term campaign game, but it's up to the Game Master and the players to BALANCE the game's pluses and minuses. (In fact I had an EXELLENT game of V&V at Orccon'86. Two and a half hours of investigation and role-playing and 1/2 hour of combat at the end. Was worth almost 1.5 levels of experience to my 4th level character, mostly because there were only 6 of us where 10 were needed and we got lucky... :@) -- DISCLAMER: The opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of UCLA or it's emloyees and faculty. The might not even be mine for all I know... +---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------- | "VIOLATORS WILL BE TOAD !" |From the steam tunnels of UCLA | The Dungeon Police | Oleg Kiselev, student again +---------------------------------------+ ...{ WORLD }!ucla-cs!cs111olg
jagardner@watmath.UUCP (Jim Gardner) (03/01/86)
In article <9396@ucla-cs.ARPA> cs111olg@ucla-cs.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev (the student incarnation)) writes: >Champions and Golden Age of Champions are compatible with Justice, Inc. >and Danger International (a 30's cops and robbers and James Bond-type >games respectively). Hero Games claims ALL their games are compatible >includins Fantasy Hero. Anybody tried to mix fantasy with SF and SH? >Any comments? Yes, they are compatible and yes, we have tried it. The real trick is that superheroes really are grossly more impressive than normals, even normals who know magic. In terms of the Hero Games system, your average superhero starts at about 250 points while Justice Inc., Fantasy Hero, and Danger International characters start at about 100 points. JI, FH, and DI characters have a bit of an edge, because they get conventional weapons free, but superheroes are usually twice as fast, a minimum of eight times as strong (on average), and equipped with fancy powers like built-in energy blasts or flight or the ability to turn desolid. Every superhero worth his/her salt has some way of laughing off direct gunfire (either being dextrous enough to avoid it or tough enough to take it). Of course, this is not true of anyone with a claim of being normal. Sure, Danger International lets you buy bulletproof vests, but they're bulky and obvious under most circumstances; they slow you down, and they encourage head shots. Given this reality, the GM must be very careful in mixing normal player characters with superheroes. In any fight where a superhero works up a sweat, a normal is in real trouble (unless equipped with Champions style force fields or armour). In any fight that a normal can handle, a superhero can clean up with one hand behind his cape. This means that the GM has to figure out (a) how to equalize the fight, or (b) how to run separate fights, one for supers and one for normals. This takes a certain amount of ingenuity...not to set up the situation, but to make sure that both the supers and the normals voluntarily go where they're supposed to. What kind of normal character would willingly leave the protection of a superhero when he knows there are nasties around? And if it is obvious they have to split up, why not split up into groups that have some supers and some normals? Of course, fighting isn't everything, and if the scenario can be run without combat, the situation is more balanced. Normal characters tend to have more skills than supers, so they are better investigators. They also fit in better with everyday people, they have fewer psychological or physical quirks, and they're better adjusted socially. Sure, they may not be able to see through walls or break through doors, but they can usually sneak around the corner quietly or pick the lock. A group of really good players can work very well together. For those who can play more than one character at once, giving everyone a super and normal can be useful. On the whole, however, a more homogeneous party works better in the long run. We've had fun with mixing genres once in a while, but I don't think it would work for extended periods. Has anyone out there tried it? Jim Gardner, University of Waterloo
cdrigney@uokvax.UUCP (03/03/86)
I'd like to hear more about Jim Gardner's
(jagardner@watmath.UUCP) cross-genre gaming with the Hero System.
For anyone else interested in such, you might look into Champions
Organization Book III: The Blood provides an excellent link
between Fantasy Hero and Champions, and Justice Inc with a bit
more work. Danger International should also be possible,
although if your DI campaign doesn't have superheroes in it
you'll have to come up with a reason for having both that and
Champions. I.e. Parallel worlds (either DI agents investigating
a mysterious "Project Vulcan" or volunteering for it, that turns
out to be a crosstime gate, or The Blood or the Superheroes
stumble over the DI world), or taking care of the heroes, i.e.
you run JI in the 30s, DI in the 50s when there are no heroes,
and Champions with the Heroes emerging in the 70s. Conversely,
you could run Champions in the 40s and 50s, and have a reason for
them disappearing. The DI agents might even be investigating
why.
If the GM were good enough, I think this could make a great
scenario run in parallel, with one set of PCs in each genre,
running one genre in each session, but interweaving the
storylines to counterpoint each other. In particular, you have
to be skillful to be able to run events that will become history
already known by the future characters, without removing the
suspense or characters' free will.
I've wanted for a long time to run a DI scenario where one of the NPCs
claims to be a magician, and where the skeptical PCs keep thinking its
all done with tricks.
--Carl Rigney
USENET: {ihnp4,allegra!cbosgd}!okstate!uokvax!cdrigney
"The Krait never kills. But she sometimes lies." -- Kraitccastkv@gitpyr.UUCP (03/03/86)
All of the games in the Hero System are compatible but there is a problem
with mixing Champs with any of the other three games (Justice, Inc., Fantasy
Hero, and Danger International) and that is that Champs uses a slightly
different point scale than the others. Where Champs gives you 100 points as
a base the others only give you 75. Furthermore the value of disads in the
three lower base games is halved with each disad you take of a similar type
as opposed to with every other disad in Champs. Then too there are other
point differences. For example a competent DNPC in Champs has a base of
50 points while in the other games its 20 points. The most points a Champs
character can have before hitting diminshing returns is 290, in the other
games its 140. I've found that when mixing genres that Champs characters
shouldn't have more than 200 points, otherwise they'll blow everyone else
away. The other three games though are completely compatable and I often
allow my players to take skills/abilities from one for use in another if
its within conception and the genre.
--
Keith Conrad Vaglienti
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!ccastkv
In no way should my remarks be considered to reflect the opinions and/or
policies of the Georgia Institute of Technology nor GIT's Office of
Computing Services. Put another way, its-a not my bosses fault, monkey boy!cdrigney@uokvax.UUCP (03/06/86)
Unless I'm badly mistaken (and we all know that never happens :-) ),
_Golden Age of Champions_ is by Firebird, Ltd., the same company that
gave us the _Armory_. I agree with Jim Gardner's favorable review of
it - its a must for anyone running a campaign in the 30s/40s, and worth
looking at even if you're not running such a campaign.
Some people suggest that the Golden Age was a much better time for
superheroes, back when military technology didn't have 6000 round per
minute cannons and similar kill potential.
--Carl Rigney
USENET: {ihnp4,allegra!cbosgd}!okstate!uokvax!cdrigney
"Take THIS, Captain Nazi!"
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