[net.games.frp] Magic in FRP

vnend@ukecc.UUCP (D. W. James) (11/25/86)

In article <684@husc6.UUCP> may@husc4.UUCP (jason may) writes:
>
>        What do people out there think of the various magic systems that
>come with role-playing games?

	I think that most of them are far too limiting and just generally
poorly thought out. But then, I think that about most role-playing games
in general.

>                              I am familiar with AD&D and RQ and both
>of these games have magic systems that have a set library of spells.
>        Has anyone experimented with the idea of magic as a skill?  Rather
>than learning a whole set of spells, why not study particular fields of
>magic, eg. illusions, enchantments, fire-spells, etc.

	Without going quite to the extreme that you are describing here
this is what a friend of mine's system does. In some of the areas you 
mention, such as illusions, you do have a list of spells, but the idea
is to be so complete that almost any spell you would want to design is
already there (you just have to implement it correctly). In others,
such as fire, you have a short (10 or so) list of spells that you must
learn. Once you do you can use them to create almost any effect you 
could imagine. Note that you are not required to know all of them
before you have a usefull skill; I believe that you can have a functional  
weapon if you learn the right 3 spells, but as you learn more of them
you get more proficient, in this case by being able to cast a 'package'
of them, say 'create', 'move' and 'hasten', to through a fireball that
goes off instantainiously. You could get the same effect but slower if
you don't know enough fire spells to cast a three spell package and
had to cast them piecemeal. And once you have 'mastered' a class of
magic (say, fire) you could then start doing your own research.
	I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'enchantments', the term
has been used so broadly that it could mean any of several classes of
magic as I am used to thinking of it. Whatever you meant, I'm sure we have
a class of magic that it would fit into.


>                                                       Then one could
>combine his or her knowledge of a number of fields to create his own spell.
>This would not necessarily supplant the idea of learning specific spells, but
>an experienced mage could use his knowledge to design his own magical effects.
>Certainly, wizards of fiction don't seem to spend all their time relearning
>spells and carrying huge volumes of spells around with them.

	Nor do ours. In our system once a mage learns a spell it is there
for them to use as long as they have the strength to do so (barring certain
extreme exceptions, such as a massive backlash from trying to cast a spell
at something rediculously more powerfull AND getting really unlucky. At least
this is true of combat type spells; rituals and a few other extremely complex
spells may recommend reviewing the details before casting, but again, these
are exceptions rather than the rule. Spellbooks are for notes and archival 
uses, or as textbooks, not to be the source of the magician's knowledge.


>        In L.Sprague de Camp's 'Incompleat Enchanter' series, Harold Shea
>can cause basically any effect he likes just by design a spell for it, in
>the form of a song - though his spells didn't always come out as he liked.
>In a fantasy world, the 'science' of magic would be more well developed, perhapswith different schools of though as to how a spell s
>study different aspects of spell-casting and learn thoroughly a specific
>field, sort of like majoring in a subject at college, perhaps - 'I have a
>Ph.D. in elemental conjuration...'

	While I enjoyed the Harold Shea stories, I don't think that that
particular type of magic would lend itself to anything but a FRP along the
lines of 'Toon'. Fun, and funny, but not what most of us are wanting when
we play FRP's. As for the idea of 'majoring' in different areas, we do have
that basic idea. We don't have one generic "Magician", we have a whole class
of magician types, of varying skills and capabilities. Each has branches of
magic that they excell in, as well as others that they are very poor at 
(Wizards are good at Transformations, Mystics at Rulership, Illusionist at
Phantasims, Diviners at Locating, ect. ect.). And others that they have
a slight advantage or disadvantage, as the case may be. They each have 
their own pluses and minuses.


>        What do you think of this sort of idea?  Topic open for discussion.
>                                Jason
>

	The game system I have been descibing is called "Monsters and 
Mayhem" (copyright (c) 1985) by William Boston. We have been playing
and playtesting it since approx. 1979. At first it just grew out of our
dissatisfaction with D&D, C&S, Tunnels and Trolls, AD&D and everything
else we tried. (For you RQ fanatics out there, that was tried too, but I
missed that season.) Bill keeps up with the other games as they appear,
but so far niether he nor I has seen anything that fits what it is we
want an FRP system to do. We got into FRP's by way of traditional 
wargaming, time and movement are a neccesary part of the game, and 'real-
ism' is a must. The system that we have evolved over the years is fairly
complex, I don't know if a rank novice could start right out with it, though
Bill has tried to allow for beginning DM's by marking several rules as
optional. This way you can start out with the basics of the combat/spell
system, and add the more complex rules to taste. We have had (or have) a
total of six or seven people running this system, each with his/her
own idiosyncracies and had few problems. 
	I'm sorry to say that at the rate Bill is working the system
may never be ready for general release. He is constantly making trivial
adjustments to already completed parts, and seldom seems to do much typing
on the parts that have yet to be put on his wordprocessor. We have a playable
system, and have demonstrated it for both Yaquinto (before they went under) and
Genesis games. Bill has also talked to several other companies. Maybe one of
these years... Till then I'm just waiting for my own copy. All I need are the 
last of the cleric rules...
	Have fun.

-- 
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Later y'all,             Vnend            Ignorance is the Mother of Adventure.
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kstevens@vino.dec.com.UUCP (11/25/86)

---------------------Reply to mail dated 21-NOV-1986
21:37---------------------

Actually in the Fantasy Hero sytem, one's own magic spells can be created....



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