kmgopinathan@violet.waterloo.edu (Krishna Gopinathan) (02/26/88)
With regard to the current discussion in ont.jobs about job hunting in Canada (started by a software engineer from the US moving to Canada), I would like to pose some questions (ok, I agree this should go in the yet-to-be-created comp.industry for those of you who object to reading this in comp.misc) I was under the impression that *very* little software development goes on in Canada ( :^) Canada exports lumber and imports high-tech. :-) ) though I would agree that much of what does go on occurs in Toronto. What are the advantages of developing software in Canada over the US, and when did the software industry in Canada attain any significant proportions? Would you say that today it has any significant impact on the Canadian economy? Does the software industry in Canada consist more of multinationals (guess who??) or Canadian-owned companies? I would appreciate hearing from you -- opinions as well as facts welcome. -- Krishna
daniel@bnr-di.UUCP (Daniel Zlatin) (02/29/88)
In article <5358@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, kmgopinathan@violet.waterloo.edu (Krishna Gopinathan) writes: > I was under the impression that *very* little software development goes > on in Canada ( :^) Canada exports lumber and imports high-tech. :-) ) .... > .... Would > you say that today it has any significant impact on the Canadian economy? > Does the software industry in Canada consist more of multinationals (guess > who??) or Canadian-owned companies? I don't know what the percentages are, but I would certainly say that software development has a significant impact on the Canadian economy. In particular, I think you have to realize that much software development goes out packaged inside products that aren't perceived as "software". Two examples that I can point at (and I'm sure there are lots more) are: 1) Telephone switches produced by Northern Telecom and sold throughout the world (what can I say -- I'm biased, since BNR does the R&D for those switches....) contain more than 5 million lines of code (can you even *conceive* of that amount?). Although it is called a telephone switch, or a PBX, or whatever, and looks like hardware, I think that the costs in developing it are divided about 50-50 between software and hardware. 2) Flight simulators made by CAE Electronics. These also are perceived to be "hardware", but again, must (by their very nature) contain scads of software created for the specific purpose of controlling the complex hardware necessary to simulate the feeling of flight. Of course on top of this there is a lot of software developed "in-house" by many companies for more mundane applications. And don't overlook the software produced by companies such as Spar Aerospace, Develcon, MacDonald Dettwiler, Microtel Pacific, SED Systems, Bristol Aerospace, etc., etc.... Most of this software would (once again) be hidden inside products or projects that are not immediately identifiable as bearers of software. If the question was raised in addressing the area of "meta-software" :-) (software that helps us produce other software: compilers, operating systems, editors, CASE tools, etc., etc.) which are then sold in-and-of-themselves as products, I'm not sure how Canada would rank. But we certainly produce a lot that is not quite as visible as these off-the-shelf software products. Daniel Zlatin Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada best path: DANIEL@BNR.BITNET second best path: ...utzoo!bnr-vpa!bnr-di!daniel
brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) (02/29/88)
And in spite of the difficulties, you might be surprised at what Canadians have done, although many of them, like entertainers, do it south of the border. Consider Cognos, around a $100M company. And look at the microcomputer industry... Quantum Software Systems' QNX is one of the major Non-DOS OS's For a long time Batteries Included was the largest Atari ST publisher, but it went under for a number of reasons having nothing to do with its nationality. Many other Atari and Commodore products come from here, a few of them mine. In languages, all the Watcom products, at WATFOR derivatives, plus most languages for Honeywell mainframes, plus ALICE Pascal. 8-) The Xim Database In Spreadsheets, VP-Planner and Vip-Professional, SQZ! and 3-2-1 Blastoff. Plus the product manager for Lotus 1-2-3 is Canadian. The integrated package Ability was written by Canadians here in Waterloo. In Tools, the Coherent operating system, the MKS toolkit, and the various less reputable Quaid products like Copywrite. In the early days of the industry, MicroChess, the most popular program of its time, was from here. Lattice's HighStyle Deskstop publisher and Laser Friendly's "Office Publisher". --- and many more. The surprising thing is that these products survive in spite of all the problems here, from border crossing difficulties to trade barriers to the problems caused by excessive government grants and interference (Xanaro, Graham Software). If the border barriers ever do truly drop, what happens may be quite astounding! -- Brad Templeton, Looking Glass Software Ltd. - Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473
daveb@geac.UUCP (David Collier-Brown) (02/29/88)
And not to let a good opportunity pass by, there is at least one
Canadian computer manufacturer, with its own machine architecture,
suite of operating systems (including you-know-what), normal and
special-purpose languages and all the normal infrastructure.
Geac makes high-performance transaction-processing machines for
the banking and library industries. And writes the software that
makes them go.
--dave (biased) c-b
--
David Collier-Brown. {mnetor yunexus utgpu}!geac!daveb
Geac Computers International Inc., | Computer Science loses its
350 Steelcase Road,Markham, Ontario, | memory (if not its mind)
CANADA, L3R 1B3 (416) 475-0525 x3279 | every 6 months.daveb@geac.UUCP (David Collier-Brown) (02/29/88)
In article <1444@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: >And in spite of the difficulties, you might be surprised at what >Canadians have done, although many of them, like entertainers, do it >south of the border. And don't forget Brian Kernighan, Tom Cargill and all sorts of Canajan Bell-Labs people. -- David Collier-Brown. {mnetor yunexus utgpu}!geac!daveb Geac Computers International Inc., | Computer Science loses its 350 Steelcase Road,Markham, Ontario, | memory (if not its mind) CANADA, L3R 1B3 (416) 475-0525 x3279 | every 6 months.
greg@xios.XIOS.UUCP (Greg Franks) (03/04/88)
Regarding writing software in Canada.... Granted, Canada may not be a hot bed for MesS DOS applications, but we certainly do *lots* in the area of communications. BNR and Mitel here in Ottawa are always looking for people... Have fun! -- Greg Franks XIOS Systems Corporation, 1600 Carling Avenue, (613) 725-5411 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Z 8R8 utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!xios!greg "There's so much to sea in Nova Scotia"
glee@cognos.uucp (Godfrey Lee) (03/09/88)
In article <1444@looking.UUCP> brad@looking.UUCP (Brad Templeton) writes: >Consider Cognos, around a $100M company. Well, actually around $75M company, we are working on $100M++. We are also listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange, and in the U.S. NASDAQ. We have offices worldwide, dare I say a Canadian multinational? >Quantum Software Systems' QNX is one of the major Non-DOS OS's It is used by the Ontario Government for education. I also know of several firms in Toronto involved with the Commodore Amiga computer. Comspec sells hardware like memory. Very Vivid sells a system called Mandala that is a video-interactive system that blows your mind (so reported many times - wish I could see it). Imagine a projection TV, a person standing in front of screen, a video camera pointed at person, all hooked up to the Amiga. Now imagine the computer generates graphics on the screen, and interacts with the person's movements... the ultimate video game! >The Xim Database ZIM database, by Zanthe of Ottawa. >In Tools, the Coherent operating system, the MKS toolkit, and the various >less reputable Quaid products like Copywrite. MKS toolkit is very nice. Don't forget OfficeSmith, SystemHouse, XIOS, Canadian Geovision,... >The surprising thing is that these products survive in spite of all the >problems here, from border crossing difficulties to trade barriers to >the problems caused by excessive government grants and interference >(Xanaro, Graham Software). I, for one, have adopted Canada (came to Canada when I was 18), and like it a lot. I am glad that the work I am doing is exciting, and the only people doing comparable work are in Boston, California, or Toronto. [not strictly true, I am sure, but you know what I mean] -- Godfrey Lee P.O. Box 9707 Cognos Incorporated 3755 Riverside Dr. VOICE: (613) 738-1440 FAX: (613) 738-0002 Ottawa, Ontario UUCP: decvax!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!cognos!glee CANADA K1G 3Z4