daveb@geac.UUCP (David Collier-Brown) (09/02/88)
I have a cautionary tale for the net, and a question.
In my recent job-hunt, I dealt with a somewhat "excitable"
recruiter, who sent me off to interview with a small spin-off
company in the city. Like many, he wanted me to call him
**imediately** after the interview ended...
I, on the other hand, like to think a lot about interviews before
deciding what really happened, and had been bothered by this
"premature evaluation" scenario before. So I didn't.
Before going in to the second interview with the same company, he
assured me that my concerns about the job's risks would be addressed
by the company in that interview, and that he wanted me to come to
his office to sign a letter of acceptance following the interview.
So off I go to the interview, and they talk a lot, and the jobs
sounds really quite good... or so I thought. I get on the subway
and start off for the recruiter... and then think I should at least
talk it over with a friend, if not wait til the evening and discuss
it with my wife.
The friend points out that the employer **really** didn't respond
to my concerns, they just stroked me. I start telling him about the
other subjects discussed (a co-worker had also interviewed there)
and he exploded! "They thought XXXX **WASN'T** a good systems
administrator? That's trivially false, and he does too understand
what's in an inode. They're lying, and your headhunter is trying to
get you to sign real quick before you notice!"
I didn't accept the position.
1) Caution: watch out for headhunters who want you to act fast.
They're trying to get a first impression, true, but they
also want to catch you on an "up" and reinforce it. Possibly
to your detriment.
2) Question: what other unethical techniques can people on the net
report, for all our sakes.
--dave (now even more paranoid) c-b
ps: I'm not going to mention the recruiter's name on the net, but if
you're in Toronto and worried that you might be dealing with him,
you can send me mail and I'll tell you if you've got the same
person.
--
David Collier-Brown. | yunexus!lethe!dave
78 Hillcrest Ave,. | He's so smart he's dumb.
Willowdale, Ontario. | --Joyce C-Bkevin@jtsv16.UUCP (kevin) (09/06/88)
In article <3195@geac.UUCP> daveb@geac.UUCP (David Collier-Brown) writes: > In my recent job-hunt, I dealt with a somewhat "excitable" >recruiter, who sent me off to interview with a small spin-off >company in the city. Like many, he wanted me to call him >**imediately** after the interview ended... > >1) Caution: watch out for headhunters who want you to act fast. > They're trying to get a first impression, true, but they > also want to catch you on an "up" and reinforce it. Possibly > to your detriment. >2) Question: what other unethical techniques can people on the net > report, for all our sakes. > I have yet to find a headhunter worth the trouble or money, both as a recruiter and a job seeker. These people charge outrageous sums of money and give little in return. Three percent per thousand dollars of salary is typical. The recruiting industry needs some regulation. We have had calls from people claiming to have sold a stereo to a programmer, but couldn't remember the person's name, asking us to name a few and maybe one will ring a bell. Unfortunately, we were breaking in a new receptionist, so that one got through. There have been others as well. When actually looking, I have been sent people who were not even remotely qualified for the job. The headhunters justify themselves by claiming to pre-qualify candidates for you. Their performance leaves a lot to be desired, especially when all they do is search a database for some keywords. Am I ticked off with headhunters? Yeah, you can say that. I suppose there are a few good ones out there but I haven't found them. The ones I have dealt with are more like used car salesmen. Yucch. One more thing to consider, if you are looking for a job. Those fees paid by companies looking for people are not going in your pocket. Instead they are supporting an industry full of unethical and sleazy operators. -- Kevin Brighton UUCP: {geac,utzoo,utgpu}!syntron!jtsv16!kevin JTS Computer Systems Ltd. or: suncan!jtsv16!kevin Toronto +1 416 665-8910 or: uunet!jtsv16!kevin
frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) (09/08/88)
In article <283@jtsv16.UUCP> kevin@jtsv16.UUCP (kevin) writes: >In article <3195@geac.UUCP> daveb@geac.UUCP (David Collier-Brown) writes: >> In my recent job-hunt, I dealt with a somewhat "excitable" >>recruiter, who sent me off to interview with a small spin-off >>company in the city. Like many, he wanted me to call him >>**imediately** after the interview ended... > ... >I have yet to find a headhunter worth the trouble or money, both as a >recruiter and a job seeker. These people charge outrageous sums of money >and give little in return. Three percent per thousand dollars of salary >is typical. Over the years, I've been on both sides of the fence (looking & hiring) many times, and I've had most of the experiences mentioned (I even had a headhunter who accepted a job on my behalf without consulting me). You occasionally (very occasionally) run into an individual recruiter with some morals, but the only company with a consistently excellent reputation is P.J. Ward. I've never been steered to an inappropriate job, or been presented with an an inappropriate person by them. They work hard at being ethical and are *very* thorough. One side-effect is that this takes some time, so you're not constantly being bombarded with positions/resumes. This may make you feel neglected, but it's really the only practical way. Just a personal opinion. -- Frank Kolnick, consulting for, and therefore expressing opinions independent of, Computer X UUCP: {allegra, linus, ihnp4}!utzoo!mnetor!frank
david@geac.UUCP (David Haynes) (09/09/88)
In article <4709@mnetor.UUCP> frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) writes: >In article <283@jtsv16.UUCP> kevin@jtsv16.UUCP (kevin) writes: >>In article <3195@geac.UUCP> daveb@geac.UUCP (David Collier-Brown) writes: >>> In my recent job-hunt, I dealt with a somewhat "excitable" >>>recruiter, who sent me off to interview with a small spin-off >>>company in the city. Like many, he wanted me to call him >>>**imediately** after the interview ended... >> ... >>I have yet to find a headhunter worth the trouble or money, both as a >>recruiter and a job seeker. These people charge outrageous sums of money >>and give little in return. Three percent per thousand dollars of salary >>is typical. > >You occasionally (very occasionally) run into an individual >recruiter with some morals, but the only company with a consistently >excellent reputation is P.J. Ward. I've never been steered to an >inappropriate job, or been presented with an an inappropriate >person by them. I agree that PJ is the best recruiter in the city, but the problem (from my narrow minded perspective ;-) ) is that they do not really specialize in high/leading-edge work. Granted there is not all that much development going on in TO these days, but Ward tends not even to know many companies beyond the big few. (IBM, NT, BNR, H-B) I can understand from Ward's point of view that it pays more to specialize in the IBM world of things, and this is very lucrative, but I think he should consider trying to get a person in each branch who specializes in the high tech end of things. One thing I wish all these *^(**(&%( recruiters would do is to realize that there are other systems than IBM systems and that it makes no sense to have someone with non-IBM experience fill out their stupid little forms. One recruiter even has a column for ``Core'' on their form so that you can indicate how much of it was on the machine(s) you worked on. He looked a little shocked when I filled this column with zeroes! -david- Ain't no core in me, momma, I ain't no space shuttle.
gerry@geac.UUCP (Gerry Singleton) (09/10/88)
for the most part i agree with kevin EXCEPT I've found a good one. Funny thing though, he's trying to get out of recruiting to go into a business of his own. If he's doing this, how many other good people have left the business to leave us, and businesses, at the mercy of those Kevin has described. Sure doesn't take much to spoil the barrel, eh? ger -- G. Roderick Singleton | "ALL animals are created equal, <gerry@syntron.uucp>, | BUT some animals are MORE or <gerry@geac.uucp>, | equal than others.", warning or <gerry@eclectic.uucp> | from"Animal Farm" by George Orwell