[net.cycle] Headlights during the day.

tjsmedley@watmum.UUCP (Trevor J. Smedley) (05/16/86)

>>I hope you are aware that certain vehicles such as motorcycles come
>>from the manufacturer with headlights on whenever the engine is
>>running.
>
>Yes, this is true.  Yet another Silly Law Our Government Has Seen Fit
>To Thrust Upon Us.

This is ***NOT*** a silly law. I have come close to killing people
riding bikes with the headlight off. Not on purpose, but simply
because they were for all practical purposes invisible. I have yet to
come close to a bike with the light on. I actually used to put my high
beam on when I was riding on bright sunny days. It's unlikely that
you'll run into someone that you're swearing at (at least by accident
:-)

ebh@cord.UUCP (05/19/86)

In article <496@watmum.UUCP> tjsmedley@watmum.UUCP (Trevor J. Smedley) writes:
>>>I hope you are aware that certain vehicles such as motorcycles come
>>>from the manufacturer with headlights on whenever the engine is
>>>running.
>>
>>Yes, this is true.  Yet another Silly Law Our Government Has Seen Fit
>>To Thrust Upon Us.
>
>This is ***NOT*** a silly law.
>I have yet to come close to a bike with the light on.

Law or not, I agree with Trevor.  You are so much more visible with
your light on than not, that having it on all the time is a feature, 
not a bug.  Besides, even if it is a law, at least it costs almost
nothing to implement, unlike catalytic converters, etc.

Also, my rule of thumb for my car is "wipers on, lights on".

-Ed Horch   {ihnp4,cbosgd,allegra}!cord!ebh

mazlack@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Lawrence J. Mazlack) (05/19/86)

>>>I hope you are aware that certain vehicles such as motorcycles come
>>>from the manufacturer with headlights on whenever the engine is
>>>running.
>>
>>Yes, this is true.  Yet another Silly Law Our Government Has Seen Fit
>>To Thrust Upon Us.
>
>This is ***NOT*** a silly law. I have come close to killing people
>riding bikes with the headlight off. Not on purpose, but simply
>because they were for all practical purposes invisible. ....

Agreed.  It really helps your visibility.  I have been riding bikes
for over years and many places - Alaska, all of Europe, most of central
asia (Turkey, Iran, Afganistan, etc) and I believe completely.  The
only ill effects are that some generators/alternators are not robust
enough and it hurts when starting with marginal batteries. (I run a
BMW 1000cc bike and they have really crummy batteries - good for about
18 months.)

Larry Mazlack  mazlack@ernie.berkeley.edu
 

curry@nsc.UUCP (05/20/86)

>>silly law
>not silly law
I must beg to differ on this one.  First of all I personally find it a silly
law because it puts the burden of the activity on the victim.  Second of all
while it is true that the headlight being on does improve the distance that
any vehicle is noticed at to cross traffic, the improvement does not take 
unsafe to safe but only close to safer.  The only times that I have seen
the headlight be a factor was because the light through off the drivers depth
perception and they though I was closer than I was.  The danger of the lights
on law is that one, the tail light is also on meaning a dangers drop in the
driver behind being able to perceive of the brake light being on and two
it gives the driver failing to yield an extra excuse to rationalize away the
carelessness.  I seldom get angry over a close call because I have them in
my car as well.  Those close calls are because the other guy misjudges the
speed or they look, wait for the decision process, and then go, after the
oncoming traffic has arrived.
I wouldn't mind the European system.  Their bikes have a three position switch;
Off-headlight (or city light)-all lights.
My last objection to making things like lights on a law is that what happens
in case of a mechanical failure.  In a car, you might get a repair order to
fix it but it is legal to drive to get it fixed.  With the headlight law, it
is illegal to drive to get it fixed.  
Actually, my last-last objection is that not all states have the law.  Before
the manufacturers jumped in anticipation of the law, the states with lights
on law had higher accident and death rates than states without.

edg@micropro.UUCP (05/20/86)

In article <256@cord.UUCP> ebh@cord.UUCP (59453-Ed Horch) writes:
>Law or not, I agree with Trevor.  You are so much more visible with
>your light on than not, that having it on all the time is a feature, 
>not a bug.  Besides, even if it is a law, at least it costs almost
>nothing to implement, unlike catalytic converters, etc.
>Also, my rule of thumb for my car is "wipers on, lights on".
>-Ed Horch   {ihnp4,cbosgd,allegra}!cord!ebh

I agree with Ed regarding both car and bike.  I like the feature of the
bike that keeps me from leaving the light on and draining the battery.
I wish my car worked approximately the same way.  

I want to get a big white fairing to augment my headlight and make me
more visible  (a) in peoples mirrors and (b) to cross traffic.
				-edg
-- 
Ed Greenberg			| {hplabs,glacier}!well!micropro!edg
MicroPro International Corp.	|  {ucbvax,decwrl}!dual!micropro!edg
San Rafael, California		|       {lll-crg,ptsfa}!micropro!edg

howard@sfsup.UUCP (H.M.Moskovitz) (05/21/86)

> >>
> >>Yes, this is true.  Yet another Silly Law Our Government Has Seen Fit
> >>To Thrust Upon Us.
> >
> >This is ***NOT*** a silly law. I have come close to killing people
> >riding bikes with the headlight off. Not on purpose, but simply
> >because they were for all practical purposes invisible. ....
> 
> Agreed.  It really helps your visibility.  I have been riding bikes

I was browsing through the New Jersey State Motorcycle Operator Manual
and it states that use of a headlight during the day can increase a
rider's visibility up to one and one-half times (1.5X). I find that
a significant increase. In fact I would use a headlight modulator
on to of that (a past discussion on net.cycle) and would think that
would increase the visibility to 2X.

-- 


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					Howard Moskovitz
					AT&T Info. Systems
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