[net.cycle] Which motorcycle to purchase?

kev@voder.UUCP (Kevin Hoskins) (08/21/86)

     First I want to thank all of you that responded to my recent 
questions concerning time of year to make a purchase and insurance.
Now let me fill you in on some other elements that go into the 
equation that determines which motorcycle I finally purchase.

     As you saw in the 'Keywords' heading above I'll be doing about 
120 miles a day round trip from my home to work. Given the minimum 
number weeks as 40, or 200 days, the total miles per year is 24,000.
50 weeks brings the total to 30,000. None of this takes into account 
trips to the gas station (there will be MANY) or fun rides in the 
hills/mountains that surround the area where I live. 

     Is this still a good idea? I mean am I still operating in something
that resembles rational cognitive processes? Can a modern motorcycle engine 
(or the whole motorcycle for that matter) hold up to that kind of 
high mileage and last for three years or longer? 

     Another item that concerns me very much is that to make this 
purchase I probably will have to sell one of our cars. That leaves us 
with one car and the (newly purchased) motorcycle. Well that's okay 
between April and September when it's not raining. But when it IS 
raining I might have to take the car, which leaves the rest of my
family without transportation. That may not be to good. And if I don't
drive the car, should I even be trying to ride in the rain?  

     I have gone to some of the dealers in my area (all four major Japanese
manufactures were represented). First to fall from the list of possible choices were the 'did-I-make-a-wrong-turn-trying-to-get-to-the-pits-boy-racer-
eat-up-the-canyon-road' type of vehicle (which I do like). But I cannot 
quite see myself sitting in that bent-over position for over an hour while
I travel to work. So that, unfortunately, seems to remove them from 
my list.

     Most of the dealers seem to be in agreement with the suggestion that
I purchase a large displacement machine (1 litre or >). The large engine 
will not have to work as hard as .75 litre and therefore should last 
much longer. These seems reasonable.

     After all the above verbage my question is simple: (and assuming
that you answered yes to my question about "...rational cognitive...")
what motorcycle would you recommend that I consider purchasing that will
give me very good reliability and VERY long mileage?

     Thank you! 


P.S. I have placed the 1985 Honda V65 Sabre on my possibility list. There
are still some new non-current models available.

dob@ihlpa.UUCP (Daniel M. O'Brien) (08/22/86)

>      First I want to thank all of you that responded to my recent 
> questions concerning time of year to make a purchase and insurance.
> Now let me fill you in on some other elements that go into the 
> equation that determines which motorcycle I finally purchase.
> 
>      As you saw in the 'Keywords' heading above I'll be doing about 
> 120 miles a day round trip from my home to work. Given the minimum 
> number weeks as 40, or 200 days, the total miles per year is 24,000.
> 50 weeks brings the total to 30,000. None of this takes into account 
> trips to the gas station (there will be MANY) or fun rides in the 
> hills/mountains that surround the area where I live. 
...
>      I have gone to some of the dealers in my area (all four major Japanese
> manufactures were represented).  First to fall from the list of possible 
> choices were the 'did-I-make-a-wrong-turn-trying-to-get-to-the-pits-boy-racer- 
> eat-up-the-canyon-road' type of vehicle (which I do like). But I cannot 
> quite see myself sitting in that bent-over position for over an hour while
> I travel to work. So that, unfortunately, seems to remove them from 
> my list.

Why not consider the Yamaha FJ1100 or the new FJ1200.  Although it may look 
like you would be bent over/uncomfortable, but it's not.  Most mags rate the 
FJ1100/1200 very highly for comfort/sport/touring, even two-up touring!  

I would have bought one instead of my Honda 500 Interceptor but couldn't 
justify the extra cost/size for the limitted amount of riding I do.  Your 
commutting would.  

Cheers,
-- 
			Daniel M. O'Brien (ihnp4!ihlpa!dob)
			AT&T Bell Laboratories
			IH 4A-257, x 4782
			Naperville-Wheaton Road
			Naperville, IL 60566

pag00@amdahl.UUCP (Pria Graves) (08/22/86)

In article <2339@voder.UUCP> kev@voder.UUCP (Kevin Hoskins) writes:

>      As you saw in the 'Keywords' heading above I'll be doing about 
> 120 miles a day round trip from my home to work. Given the minimum 
> number weeks as 40, or 200 days, the total miles per year is 24,000.
> 50 weeks brings the total to 30,000. None of this takes into account 
> trips to the gas station (there will be MANY) or fun rides in the 
> hills/mountains that surround the area where I live. 
> 
>      Is this still a good idea? I mean am I still operating in something
> that resembles rational cognitive processes? Can a modern motorcycle engine 
> (or the whole motorcycle for that matter) hold up to that kind of 
> high mileage and last for three years or longer?
 .....
> That may not be to good. And if I don't
> drive the car, should I even be trying to ride in the rain?  
> 

The only motorcycle I know of which may be counted upon to last 100,000
miles or more without (usually) major surjury is the BMW.  They are
barely broken in at 20,000 while most motorcycles are worn out.  I
gather that some of the larger water cooled Japanese bikes last longer
than their predicessors but I don't have personal knowlege of that.
I do know a large number of BMWs, however, that run quite well as they
approach the century mark (my husband's for example - mine only has
75,000).
Another point is that bikes with a shaft drive (including BMW) are far
less wearing to ride.  On a 550 Honda the farthest I could manage
in a day was 450 miles.  I have done 700 on the BMW and still been
able to walk.
As for rain, yes you can do it.  It gets a bit old but it can be done.
I can commute by train which leaves our one car for my husband most
rainy days but we have both had to ride in a fair bit of wet on vacations
(Oregon and Washington are ALWAYS wet).
My advice?  Do it.  Just make sure you always have good tires (Metzler
or Continental) and replace them frequently.  And get a good rain suit.
-- 
Pria            ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!pag00
                (408) 746 7539


(Disclaimer:  even I don't necessarily agree!)

animal@ihlpa.UUCP (D. Starr) (08/22/86)

> 
>      First I want to thank all of you that responded to my recent 
> questions concerning time of year to make a purchase and insurance.
> Now let me fill you in on some other elements that go into the 
> equation that determines which motorcycle I finally purchase.
> 
>      As you saw in the 'Keywords' heading above I'll be doing about 
> 120 miles a day round trip from my home to work. Given the minimum 
> number weeks as 40, or 200 days, the total miles per year is 24,000.
> 50 weeks brings the total to 30,000. None of this takes into account 
> trips to the gas station (there will be MANY) or fun rides in the 
> hills/mountains that surround the area where I live. 
> 
>      Is this still a good idea? I mean am I still operating in something
> that resembles rational cognitive processes? Can a modern motorcycle engine 
> (or the whole motorcycle for that matter) hold up to that kind of 
> high mileage and last for three years or longer? 
> 
>      Another item that concerns me very much is that to make this 
> purchase I probably will have to sell one of our cars. That leaves us 
> with one car and the (newly purchased) motorcycle. Well that's okay 
> between April and September when it's not raining. But when it IS 
> raining I might have to take the car, which leaves the rest of my
> family without transportation. That may not be to good. And if I don't
> drive the car, should I even be trying to ride in the rain?  
> 
>      I have gone to some of the dealers in my area (all four major Japanese
> manufactures were represented). First to fall from the list of possible choices were the 'did-I-make-a-wrong-turn-trying-to-get-to-the-pits-boy-racer-
> eat-up-the-canyon-road' type of vehicle (which I do like). But I cannot 
> quite see myself sitting in that bent-over position for over an hour while
> I travel to work. So that, unfortunately, seems to remove them from 
> my list.
> 
>      Most of the dealers seem to be in agreement with the suggestion that
> I purchase a large displacement machine (1 litre or >). The large engine 
> will not have to work as hard as .75 litre and therefore should last 
> much longer. These seems reasonable.
> 
>      After all the above verbage my question is simple: (and assuming
> that you answered yes to my question about "...rational cognitive...")
> what motorcycle would you recommend that I consider purchasing that will
> give me very good reliability and VERY long mileage?
> 
>      Thank you! 
> 
> 
> P.S. I have placed the 1985 Honda V65 Sabre on my possibility list. There
> are still some new non-current models available.

Virtually anything you buy from US, Japan or Germany will last over 100K
miles without needing major work (over 750cc, at least).  Since you are
talking about selling one of your cars, I somehow suspect that you'll also
be doing your own maintenance to save money.  I would recommend that you
quiz your local dealer about exactly how much work it is to change oil&filter,
adjust valves (if needed), change coolant, adjust chain (if needed),
change fork oil (something few people remember to do), R&R wheels (you
can save big bucks on new tires by removing wheels yourself), etc.  The
origninal Interceptor, for instance, required draining and removing the
lower radiator to change the oil filter (or required a mechanic with very
small hands); the bike was not designed with ease of maintenance as a
priority.  Also consider the relative virtues of chain vs. belt vs. shaft;
when you put on over 20K miles a year the expenses of chain replacement
add up.

As for the V65 Sabre, you might be interested to know that Road Rider rated
this machine one of the best all-around motorcycles made.  It is very fast
in a straight line, handles very well (probably as well as an Interceptor
unless you are a very exceptional rider), is remarkable comfortable for
long distance touring and looks pretty good.  (The only thing that kept
it from being a total "all-purpose" bike was that it lacked the necessary
ground clearance to do serious off-road riding!)  Honda also sells a very
attractive (at least to me) sport-touring fairing for this bike, which
makes it a very nice package.

Dan Starr

"But are we THERE yet?"

mazlack@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (Lawrence J. Mazlack) (08/25/86)

>     Most of the dealers seem to be in agreement with the suggestion that
>I purchase a large displacement machine (1 litre or >). The large engine 
>will not have to work as hard as .75 litre and therefore should last 
>much longer. These seems reasonable.

Well, naturally a dealer wants to sell you a bigger bike - they get more.
Myself, if you are a new rider, I sure wouldn't buy a big bike - that is, 
unless you don't care very much if your machine gets scratched and dented.

>     After all the above verbage my question is simple: (and assuming
>that you answered yes to my question about "...rational cognitive...")
>what motorcycle would you recommend that I consider purchasing that will
>give me very good reliability and VERY long mileage?

I would suggest one of the BMW twins (before this, current model year).  They
are highly reliable, often run over 100,000 miles before needing a major engine
overhaul.  The down side is that they are expensive.

...Larry   mazlack@ernie.berkeley.edu

bob@madvax.UUCP (Bob Palin) (08/27/86)

> 
> P.S. I have placed the 1985 Honda V65 Sabre on my possibility list. There
> are still some new non-current models available.

You should talk to people with the V65 Sabre first, if a windshield is fitted
they are very noisy - doesn't seem to be a problem without one, but who wants
to ride 120 miles a day into the wind, especially if you ride when it's
cold out.  Sabres are also expensive to service costing around $140 plus parts
each time.  They are a nice bike otherwise and as it happens I have a 700 for
sale right now, only $1550 too. ( 1984, 16K miles, 2 years left on warranty )

For the kind of mileage you are contemplating you need a solid non sporty
type bike, a Gold Wing would be perfect or a BMW perhaps.  They are expensive
but will last a long time, allow you to ride in the rain with minimal
discomfort and relieve the commuting tedium with a radio/tape player.  I ride
my Goldy ( The Battlestar ) all year round with no problem and don't even
own a car.  If you have not ridden a bike much before you should consider
not investing too much for the first one and replacing it after a year or
two if you still ant to ride. ( How about $1550 ? )  Mid size bikes will last
that long easily if not mis-treated, my Honda 750F was still going well at
48K miles when it was stolen.

Bob Palin, Varian, Walnut Creek, Ca  (415)945-2278 zehntel!varian!bob

jp@faron.UUCP (Jeffrey Picciotto) (08/29/86)

RTLWYM
>> = someone        >  = someone else        = me

>>...  First to fall from the list of possible 
>>choices were the 'did-I-make-a-wrong-turn-trying-to-get-to-the-pits-boy-racer
>>-eat-up-the-canyon-road' type of vehicle (which I do like). But I cannot 
>>quite see myself sitting in that bent-over position for over an hour while
>>I travel to work. So that, unfortunately, seems to remove them from 
>>my list.
>
> Why not consider the Yamaha FJ1100 or the new FJ1200.  Although it may look 
> like you would be bent over/uncomfortable, but it's not.  Most mags rate the 
> FJ1100/1200 very highly for comfort/sport/touring, even two-up touring!  
>			Daniel M. O'Brien (ihnp4!ihlpa!dob)

In fact, for a rider with some experience, the FJ1200 is a great bike.  I
recently rode Boston->Cincinnati->Boston on mine.  The ride each way is
about 16 hours (at a good clip - it's 900+ miles).  I did each one way ride
in one swoop.

For the first several hours it's great - after that your butt starts to let
you know that you're not riding a sofa :-).  As far as the riding position
goes: if you're moving, you're ok (the wind 'blast' holds you up).  If
your commute is stop-and-go for an hour a more upright position might be
better, otherwise, once you get used to the sligthly more aggressive
position, it's at least as comfy as the upright posture.  (And the seat
on the 1200 is infinitely better than the one on the Maxxim (softer, and
provides for moving your butt around if it gets sore)).

My only complaints with the FJ1200: the fairing buzzes around 4-5 Krpm
(where I frequently find myself), and more importantly, the application
of the front brakes in a curve has very disconcerting results: the bike's
lean angle changes a bit (up if you brake, down if you release).  It
really sucks if you're into twisty mountain roads.

--jeff
...!linus!faron!jp
jpicc@mitre-bedford.arpa

oper@ihlpa.UUCP (UNIX OPERATIONS) (08/29/86)

> 
>      First I want to thank all of you that responded to my recent 
> questions concerning time of year to make a purchase and insurance.
> Now let me fill you in on some other elements that go into the 
> equation that determines which motorcycle I finally purchase.
> 
>      As you saw in the 'Keywords' heading above I'll be doing about 
> 120 miles a day round trip from my home to work. Given the minimum 
> number weeks as 40, or 200 days, the total miles per year is 24,000.
> 50 weeks brings the total to 30,000. None of this takes into account 
> trips to the gas station (there will be MANY) or fun rides in the 
> hills/mountains that surround the area where I live. 
> 
>      Is this still a good idea? I mean am I still operating in something
> that resembles rational cognitive processes? Can a modern motorcycle engine 
> (or the whole motorcycle for that matter) hold up to that kind of 
> high mileage and last for three years or longer? 
> 
>      Another item that concerns me very much is that to make this 
> purchase I probably will have to sell one of our cars. That leaves us 
> with one car and the (newly purchased) motorcycle. Well that's okay 
> between April and September when it's not raining. But when it IS 
> raining I might have to take the car, which leaves the rest of my
> family without transportation. That may not be to good. And if I don't
> drive the car, should I even be trying to ride in the rain?  
> 
>      I have gone to some of the dealers in my area (all four major Japanese
> manufactures were represented). First to fall from the list of possible choices were the 'did-I-make-a-wrong-turn-trying-to-get-to-the-pits-boy-racer-
> eat-up-the-canyon-road' type of vehicle (which I do like). But I cannot 
> quite see myself sitting in that bent-over position for over an hour while
> I travel to work. So that, unfortunately, seems to remove them from 
> my list.
> 
>      Most of the dealers seem to be in agreement with the suggestion that
> I purchase a large displacement machine (1 litre or >). The large engine 
> will not have to work as hard as .75 litre and therefore should last 
> much longer. These seems reasonable.
> 
>      After all the above verbage my question is simple: (and assuming
> that you answered yes to my question about "...rational cognitive...")
> what motorcycle would you recommend that I consider purchasing that will
> give me very good reliability and VERY long mileage?
> 
>      Thank you! 
> 
> 
> P.S. I have placed the 1985 Honda V65 Sabre on my possibility list. There
> are still some new non-current models available.

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
I have a 700cc magna, It's smooth, stylish comfortable, quick,
handles nice, gets loads of attention and is a good bike.

  They aftermarket people have even come out with a sliding backrest
for it. 

  Now for the bad news. I get 25mph in the city and doing good to reach
90mph in straight highway driving. The going rate for a V-four tune-up
in my area is $80.00. The shop says that the engines are a pain to work
on.

  I have an alright lower rpm range. a mean upper middle and a eh, top.

Cruisers definatly seem to be the way to go for you. But look real
carefully.

An article posted in cycle world showed a lack of good range with
honda's v-four 750R.

  A freind of mine has a zuke GS750(suzuki). He gets 50mpg. But he isn't
as smooth and comfortable as I am.

P.S. Get a rain suit.

-

mojo@mp-mojo.UUCP (Mojo Jones) (09/03/86)

> From: jp@faron.UUCP (Jeffrey Picciotto)
> [on the FJ1200]
>                                                           (And the seat
> on the 1200 is infinitely better than the one on the Maxxim (softer, and
> provides for moving your butt around if it gets sore)).

You don't really mean an '85 or '86 Maxim, do you?  My Maxim seat seems
a lot more of a touring saddle than the FJ or the older Maxims, and it's 
an upright seating position.  Softer?  Really?  It didn't seem that way 
when I compared.  16 hours in my Maxim-X saddle is a piece of cake.  
(Just curious, not a flame!)

>                                       more importantly, the application
> of the front brakes in a curve has very disconcerting results: the bike's
> lean angle changes a bit (up if you brake, down if you release).  It
> really sucks if you're into twisty mountain roads.

"Slow, look, lean, and roll on the throttle" -- Slow down more, accelerate 
harder, don't use the brake in the turn.  But of course you'll always have 
to brake in a turn someday, and any bike will tend upright when you apply
the brakes in a turn.

Maybe someone else can tell me if it's a gyroscopic phenomenon.  It feels
like it is.

> --jeff
> ...!linus!faron!jp
> jpicc@mitre-bedford.arpa

Mojo
... Morris Jones, MicroPro Int'l Corp., Product Development
Northern Calif. Motorcycle Safety Council, MSF Instructor
{lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!mp-mojo!mojo
Not the opinion of MicroPro!

jp@faron.UUCP (Jeffrey Picciotto) (09/04/86)

>> From: jp@faron.UUCP (Jeffrey Picciotto) [on the FJ1200]
>>                                                           (And the seat
>> on the 1200 is infinitely better than the one on the Maxxim (softer, and
>> provides for moving your butt around if it gets sore)).

> You don't really mean an '85 or '86 Maxim, do you?  My Maxim seat seems
> a lot more of a touring saddle than the FJ or the older Maxims, and it's 
> an upright seating position.
>
> Mojo  {lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!mp-mojo!mojo


You're right: the maxim I was comparing with was an '81 maxim 550 (my
previous bike).  I've heard that the new maxims (especially the maxim x)
have much better seats - I've haven't tried one.  (In fact I believe that
the mags rated the maxim x's seat the best in the cruiser class).

As far as what's comfy for a tour: I'm sure everybody has a different
opinion.  Mine is: the FJ's saddle is soft (compared to what I had before).
It's also wide enough to move around in.  The riding position (leaned
forward  - but no where near as aggressive as, say, a Ninja) is very good
on the arms when you're moving.  Your weight and the wind blast frequently
cancel each other out (almost completely).

--jeff ("hate the winter") picciotto
..!linus!faron!jp
jpicc@mitre-bedford.arpa

ehrhart@sri-spam.ARPA (Tim Ehrhart) (09/07/86)

In article <2339@voder.UUCP> kev@voder.UUCP (Kevin Hoskins) writes:
>
>     As you saw in the 'Keywords' heading above I'll be doing about 
>120 miles a day round trip from my home to work. 
>     Is this still a good idea? I mean am I still operating in something
>that resembles rational cognitive processes? Can a modern motorcycle engine 
>(or the whole motorcycle for that matter) hold up to that kind of 
>high mileage and last for three years or longer? 
>

I don't think that's crazy, I ride 56 miles per day, 50 weeks per year and
have been doing so for 2 1/2 years now. The first two years were spent on
a Honda FT500 (a thumper too boot!) and the bike held up fine. I now have
a Nighthawk 700s and am enjoying the ride even more now.

>     Another item that concerns me very much is that to make this 
>purchase I probably will have to sell one of our cars. That leaves us 
>with one car and the (newly purchased) motorcycle. Well that's okay 
>between April and September when it's not raining. But when it IS 
>raining I might have to take the car, which leaves the rest of my
>family without transportation. That may not be to good. And if I don't
>drive the car, should I even be trying to ride in the rain?  
>

I personally don't find it a problem, one just needs a damn good rainsuit.
I've got a Hein Gericke with built in mittens and boot covers. I arrive dry
even after 45 minutes in any kind of rain. Also the wife makes me ride in
the rain, she says it's my choice to have a bike instead of a second car :)

>     Most of the dealers seem to be in agreement with the suggestion that
>I purchase a large displacement machine (1 litre or >). The large engine 
>will not have to work as hard as .75 litre and therefore should last 
>much longer. These seems reasonable.

I think that's a bit of salemanship (i.e. more profit on larger bikes,
more commission for them ???). I think .7 liter to < 1.0 is fine. Also
bigger bike == bigger insurance premiums.

>     After all the above verbage my question is simple: (and assuming
>that you answered yes to my question about "...rational cognitive...")
>what motorcycle would you recommend that I consider purchasing that will
>give me very good reliability and VERY long mileage?
>

I won't recommend a bike, but some features I find invaluable for a heavy
commute bike: SHAFT DRIVE, WATER COOLING. Chains go must too fast and at
your rate would need to be oiled at least twice a week. Rain and associated
road grime play hell with chains. Water cooling keeps the engine operating
at a much more regulated tempature, this is important in those hot summer
traffic jams, and cold rainy winter days.

>
>P.S. I have placed the 1985 Honda V65 Sabre on my possibility list. There
>are still some new non-current models available.

Good idea, look for non-current models. I've seen V65's for $3K in the
SF bay area! Not a bad price.

Go for it....
Tim Ehrhart