niland@hpfcms.HP.COM ( Bob Niland ) (10/04/86)
re: Motorcyles running high beams during the day
I used to ride but gave it up because I concluded that it was too dangerous;
more specifically, there are too many hazards that are not under the control
of the rider: oil patches, sand patches, dropped mufflers and automobile
drivers suffering from "fouropia" (the inability to see other vehicles
having less than four wheels).
After nearly being hit head-on one day by a left-turning fouropian driver, I
began running with my bike headlights on all the time (this is in the early
70s). This practice dramatically reduced near misses with the 4-wheel bike
bashers. Nonetheless, I soon gave up biking (I couldn't afford both a bike
and a car then, and Maine gets cold in the winter).
Bikes running headlights during the day is "a good idea". Many of you
follow this policy, and I encourage it.
Unfortunately, a large number of bikers (seems like 30% sometimes)
apparently think that "golly gee, if having headlights on during the day is
safe, then using HIGH BEAMS must be even safer!".
I disagree. Night or day, I find an oncoming bike with high beams to be
very uncomfortable, if not painful, to watch. Low beams is ok ("yes, I see
you"). High beams drives me to avert my gaze to prevent irritiation ("I
hope you see me, because I refuse to watch you"). My reaction to an
oncoming highbeamer is "gosh, that's an inconsiderate way to ride*".
So rather than increased safety, we have decreased safety. I do not see the
highbeamer signalling to turn left. I may not see the highbeamer drifting
towards me. If I have the rising/setting sun behind me, neither of us
may see the other.
Now I'm sure you personally don't do this, but please tell your riding
friends to be aware this issue.
Is it possible that riders aren't running high beams deliberately? Would
it help if I switched my lights on and flashed?
Or, is there some incredibly obvious reason why bike run high beams during
the day? Could someone explain it to me?
Regards, Hewlett-Packard
Bob Niland 3404 East Harmony Road
[ihnp4|hplabs]!hpfcla!rjn Fort Collins CO 80525
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* Actually I start fantasizing about filament-seeking missiles and 300
megawatt focused flashtube arrays... but then, I'm just a nice
peaceful guy. The redneck in the pickup truck in front of me, however,
is probably getting really pissed, and contemplating running the bike
off the road.ahn@houem.UUCP (Au H. Nguyen) (10/07/86)
- > From: niland@hpfcms.HP.COM ( Bob Niland ) > Article-I.D.: hpfcms.730004 > *NIGHT* [emphasis mine - ahn] or day, I find .. bike[s] with high beams to be > very uncomfortable, if not painful, to watch. Low beams is ok ("yes, I see > you"). High beams drives me to avert my gaze to prevent irritiation ("I > hope you see me, because I refuse to watch you"). My reaction to an > oncoming highbeamer is "gosh, that's an inconsiderate way to ride*". I agree, high beams on at night is very obnoxious, but during the day ... hell if you have the sun behind you, that means the sun, all 3 bazillion watts of it is shining directly on *ME*, so do you think my 60 watts pointed at you will really make me so much brighter as to be annoying?!!! Watching something does not imply staring at it! If you can't keep track of objects in your peripheral vision, you shouldn't be allowed to drive anyway! > So rather than increased safety, we have decreased safety. I do not see the > highbeamer signalling to turn left. I may not see the highbeamer drifting > towards me. If I have the rising/setting sun behind me, neither of us > may see the other. Are you implying that vehicles going straight should yield the right of way to vehicles that have expressed a desire to turn left?!! If the difference between having too much light and having too little light is my life, then I want enough candlepower to bring the shuttle in for a night landing!!! Au ihnp4!houem!ahn
niland@hpfcms.HP.COM ( Bob Niland ) (10/09/86)
re: daylights > I agree, high beams on at night is very obnoxious, but during the day ... > hell if you have the sun behind you, that means the sun, all 3 bazillion > watts of it is shining directly on *ME*, so do you think my 60 watts pointed > at you will really make me so much brighter as to be annoying?!!! I agree, and on paper I would probably say "hi beams + day = no problem", but, if it actually made only a small difference, I would never have noticed. (I saw two more today, and I'm not really looking for them.) > Watching something does not imply staring at it! If you can't keep track of > objects in your peripheral vision, you shouldn't be allowed to drive anyway! > Are you implying that vehicles going straight should yield the right of way > to vehicles that have expressed a desire to turn left?!! I don't like to rely that heavily on my peripheral vision. I got hit a few years ago by an auto driver who simply turned left into my path without signalling. So, I like to pay attention to what's going on, e.g. Do I have eye contact with the oncoming driver? If not, where is that driver looking? Is the vehicle at a steady speed, or slowing as if to turn? (Sometimes you can only tell by a gentle forward pitch or the cyclist's left foot downshifting.) Is the oncoming vehicle under active control, or just an unguided missile? I like to be in touch with all the cues I can get, and high beams during the day discourages me from collecting them. > If the difference between having too much light and having too little light > is my life, then I want enough candlepower to bring the shuttle in for a > night landing!!! 12/14 volt aircraft landing lights are available over the counter at your local airport. Use of them on a highway vehicle will get you promptly arrested. Deliberately running high beams at night into oncoming traffic will get you a ticket. Running high beams during the day is not covered by statute, nor does it need to be; we have too many laws already. My postings here are NOT in the nature of "there oughta be a law" or "you are wrong" or "stop it or I'll throw a tantrum". What's true is that: you do what you do - and there are consequences. Running high beams in the day may not serve your intention (which is safety) and it puts you out of agreement with me (and perhaps others). It is a simple matter: are these the results you want? Bob Niland hpu*!hpfcse!rjn [ihnp4|hplabs]!hpfcla!rjn
mikey@bbimg.UUCP (10/09/86)
I personally ride with High Beams on during the day, and switch to low
beams as soon as the SUN hits the horizon. My bike leaves me no choice
about turning them off, but I would still run with them on. I have a
VERY bright light ('78 CBX with H-4 Halogen, stock 55/60Watt although I
will probably put in one of the 55/80 or 80/100 units next burnout)
I've had cases in the past of people turning in front of me on my older bike
when I didn't always run with the lights on. If it's a choice of not seeing
me or be slightly annoyed, I'll let them be annoyed. Besides, in bright
sunlight, even a potent high beam like mine isn't that annoying. As soon as
the ambiant light levels drop at dusk, or even overcast, I switch to low beam,
because there it is VERY annoying and low beam is just as effective.
Mike Yetsko
Boston's Beth Israel Hospital
trsvax!techsup!bbimg!mikey
ps. 55, it's not even a good idea, it S*CKS!!hedden@atux01.UUCP (D. Hedden) (10/10/86)
In article <730004@hpfcms.HP.COM>, niland@hpfcms.HP.COM ( Bob Niland ) writes: > > Unfortunately, a large number of bikers (seems like 30% sometimes) > apparently think that "golly gee, if having headlights on during the day is > safe, then using HIGH BEAMS must be even safer!". > > I disagree. Night or day, I find an oncoming bike with high beams to be > very uncomfortable, if not painful, to watch. Low beams is ok ("yes, I see > you"). High beams drives me to avert my gaze to prevent irritiation ("I > hope you see me, because I refuse to watch you"). My reaction to an > oncoming highbeamer is "gosh, that's an inconsiderate way to ride*". HEAR! HEAR! Low beams work, high annoy and are dangerous for all the reasons you stated (and probably more). "The moving hand writes ..." Don
news@ccicpg.UUCP (News Admin) (10/13/86)
Not to add much but I recently took an MSF course at an USAF Base
in Wash. D.C and they recommend high beams in daylight. I only
use high beam when cars start getting thick (like heavy traffic
or freeways). I've been driving many years and when they started
the mandatory lights on business, cars pulling out in front of me
decreased quite a bit. I'm sure using high beams will give a
rider a better chance of visibility. That is unless he's using a
modulator. Anyone out there get the same advice from MSF in-
structors?
{peregrine,felix}!ccicpg!news (sorry no other login I can use)animal@ihlpa.UUCP (D. Starr) (10/13/86)
[various and sundry discussions about how annoying it is to see an oncoming bike with high beams during the day deleted] I tend to doubt that all that many motorcyclists run their high beams in the daytime; it's more likely that they have low beams out of adjustment. A 50 watt low beam halogen is quite blinding when it's aimed at oncoming traffic rather than the road, and let's face it, an awful lot of the people you pass on the road have trouble remembering to change their oil, let alone worry about the headlight adjustment. This can be especially true on bikes that are ridden primarily during the daytime (less motivation to adjust lights) and have lots of suspension adjustability (Dan--when you finished fiddling with all your suspension knobs, did you adjust your headlight?) Putting a passenger on the back of a softly-suspended cruiserbike can also give a good imitation of a high beam to oncoming traffic. The manufacturers don't help this situation when they give you an owner's manual that just says, "take it to the dealer for this adjustment" instead of telling you where it should point (something about product liability--if you follow their instructions and adjust it wrong, they are liable; if you just neglect it they're not).
dob@ihlpa.UUCP (Daniel M. O'Brien) (10/14/86)
> I tend to doubt that all that many motorcyclists run their high beams > in the daytime; it's more likely that they have low beams out of adjustment. ... > This can be especially true on bikes > that are ridden primarily during the daytime (less motivation to adjust > lights) and have lots of suspension adjustability (Dan--when you finished > fiddling with all your suspension knobs, did you adjust your headlight?) Not finished tweeking the suspension yet :-) so haven't got around to adjusting the headlight since I ride primarily during the daytime. Good point, though, since suspension changes can alter headlight point of aim! Anyway, I run the low beam all the time and just FLASH or SWITCH to brights when approaching intersections or other situations where lots of sleeping automobile drivers congregate! Still like the idea of headlight modulator, haven't got one yet, however. Maybe next season. Did buy a brakelight modulator, "THE ATTENTION GETTER" from Delta Radio, as described in a recent cycle mag. Works well - cost only $21.95. See you later, -- Daniel M. O'Brien (ihnp4!ihlpa!dob) AT&T Bell Laboratories Room IH 4A-257 Naperville-Wheaton Road, Naperville, IL 60566
ahn@houem.UUCP (Au H. Nguyen) (10/15/86)
- In this month's "Motorcyclist" (with the Honda VFR700F2 vs BMW K75S on the cover), there is an article about Dave Thom of USC, the man who did a lot of the accident data collection for the famous "Hurt Report" of a few years back. Among Dave Thom's safety tips is "Use your high beams ... High beams are wonderful." If I remember correctly, the Hurt Report did find that riders who use their high beams are under-represented in accident statistics compared to not just clods who use no lights, but also to people who use only low beams. For myself, when I started riding, circa 1980, the Hurt Report (as reported in "Motorcyclist" also, incidentally) was one of the first things I read. Needless to say, I rode with high beams on in the daytime. Given my level of experience and the cut-and-thrust of New York City traffic that I rode through everyday to go to school, I think the high beams deserve at least some credit. I never even came close! Interestingly enough, with my last bike, I almost always ride with only low beams. Partly because I now live in suburbian New Joisee, where traffic is not quite as intense as Central Park West at 5PM, partly because I now consider myself to be a more "experienced" and defensive rider, and last but not least, my high beam is now a 100 watter, which I suppose can be pretty brutal. (All right, those twisty roads CAN get really dark, you know :-) Anyway, on said Yamaha, I had two very close calls in less than a year. Left Turn Larry's, both of them. The first one I got away with only a scratch on my fairing (my fairing kissed the truck's bumper.) The second one totalled the bike. I ride with a 60 watt high beam on during the daytime now. Au ihnp4!houem!ahn
mo@well.UUCP (Maurice Weitman) (10/15/86)
What do you net.bikers think about headlight modulators? I've used a
Q-Switch on my Beemer with (apparantly) good results. It's really hard
to say whether or not I'm really more noticeable, or just imagine that
I am. I'm aware that they aren't legal in all states, but they're fine
here in CA. Btw, the Q-Switch people recommend (strongly, I might add)
that one hook the modulator to the high beam for daytime riding.
--
Quote: "The police aren't here to create disorder, they're here
to preserve disorder." Mayor Richard J. Daly, Chicago, 1968
Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors.
Maurice Weitman 9600 ..!{dual,hplabs,lll-crg,ptsfa,glacier}!well!mo
| 57600 (415)549-0280 voice (415)549-0388 modem-2400
this^is not 300 mcimail mweitman
a pipe 110 P. O. Box 10019 Berkeley, CA 94709herzog@leadsv.UUCP (Jordan Herzog) (10/15/86)
In article <671@houem.UUCP>, ahn@houem.UUCP (Au H. Nguyen) writes: > Anyway, on said Yamaha, I had two very close calls in less than a year. Left > Turn Larry's, both of them. The first one I got away with only a scratch on > my fairing (my fairing kissed the truck's bumper.) The second one totalled > the bike. > Close Calls? Sounds to me like the Real Thing! -- /-- dual ---\ /-- ucbvax ---\ /--- sun!sunncal ---\ Jordan Herzog { or }!{ or }!leadsv!herzog \-- decwrl ---/ \-- amdcad!cae780 --/ \-- ihnp4 --/ "Get your tongue outta my mouth, I'm kissing you goodbye !" - Must be copyrighted by someone, since its from an obscure CW song.
ahrens@pttesac.UUCP (Peter Ahrens) (10/20/86)
Just a note to follow up the discussion on what the authorities (of Motorcycle saftey) suggest on the subject of High beams. The October issue of Motorcyclist magazine has a section on the various issues of saftey, including the recommendation to use High Beam in the daytime. I personally only engage high beam as I approach intersections, distant rural crossings and the like...at stop lights I have occasionally noticed the car driver in front of me discomfited by my high beam. This occurs mainly at upward slopes. So many sources are recommending in favor of high beam use, I think I may try it. I don't see a whole lot of riders in the Bay Area with very noticeably high beams on...
alanj@orca.UUCP (10/20/86)
In article <131@ccicpg.UUCP> news@ccicpg.UUCP (News Admin) writes: >Not to add much but I recently took an MSF course at an USAF Base >in Wash. D.C and they recommend high beams in daylight. The latest issue of _Motor Cyclist_ has a section on surviving on the streets. They also recommend high beams during the day. Personally, I flash the high beams at anything that looks like it could do something to me. Keeps the left thumb from going to sleep. :-) Another thought for consideration: I find I am much more conscious of the speed limit when on a bike --- at least when off the open road. I may cruise down the the interstate at 70, but if I'm in a 35 zone I'm pretty much close to that. With the exception of small-town speed traps, speed limits are *usually* set to reflect the local hazard level. They reflect the incidence of hazards such as driveways, intersections, cross walks, traffic density, etc. These are precisely the types of hazards for which the cyclist needs the most margin of safety. A case in point: Last week I rounded a nearly blind corner doing 35 in a 35 zone. A lady pulled across my path from a side street. From 35 mph I was able to easily avoid trouble by hitting the brakes and a slight swerve -- if I had been going 45 or faster (as I have seen many other bikers take the same curve) I would had wash out my shorts when I got home ... if I had gotten home! -Alan Jeddeloh Tektronix GTD? tektronix!orca!alanj
mojo@mp-mojo.UUCP (Mojo Jones) (10/21/86)
> Not to add much but I recently took an MSF course at an USAF Base > in Wash. D.C and they recommend high beams in daylight. I only > use high beam when cars start getting thick (like heavy traffic > or freeways). I've been driving many years and when they started > the mandatory lights on business, cars pulling out in front of me > decreased quite a bit. I'm sure using high beams will give a > rider a better chance of visibility. That is unless he's using a > modulator. Anyone out there get the same advice from MSF in- > structors? > > {peregrine,felix}!ccicpg!news (sorry no other login I can use) I just returned from the MSF/NHTSA Motorcycle Safety Conference in Reno, attended by about 80 other instructors and 15 chief instructors. The opinions among that group appeared to be about the same mix as the opinions on net.cycle. But the curriculum director for MSF (Peter Fassnacht) said that high beams on during the day had about the same effectiveness as a modulator, and was better than low beams. There was one other pragmatic argument that he presented: If you're going to wear out and blow a bulb filament, better to blow the high beam than the low. Also, nifty trick if you *do* blow both filaments and have to get home or somewhere: Take the cover off the front left (or right) turn signal, and pull the bulb from the left (or right) rear signal so the flasher won't work. Clever. "The weakest part on a motorcycle is the nut that holds the handlebars." -- John Wyckoff -- Mojo ... Morris Jones, MicroPro Int'l Corp., Product Development Northern Calif. Motorcycle Safety Council, MSF Instructor {lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!mp-mojo!mojo Not the opinion of MicroPro! Democracy: The bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people. -- John Galt
levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) (10/22/86)
In article <30.UUL1.1#119@mp-mojo.UUCP>, mojo@mp-mojo.UUCP (Mojo Jones) writes: >There was one other pragmatic argument that he presented: If you're >going to wear out and blow a bulb filament, better to blow the high >beam than the low. > >Also, nifty trick if you *do* blow both filaments and have to get >home or somewhere: Take the cover off the front left (or right) >turn signal, and pull the bulb from the left (or right) rear signal >so the flasher won't work. Clever. ??? Why disable the flasher when the headlamp has burned out ??? >Mojo -- ------------------------------- Disclaimer: The views contained herein are | dan levy | yvel nad | my own and are not at all those of my em- | an engihacker @ | ployer or the administrator of any computer | at&t computer systems division | upon which I may hack. | skokie, illinois | -------------------------------- Path: ..!{akgua,homxb,ihnp4,ltuxa,mvuxa, go for it! allegra,ulysses,vax135}!ttrdc!levy
mojo@mp-mojo.UUCP (Mojo Jones) (10/25/86)
> From: levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy) > In article <30.UUL1.1#119@mp-mojo.UUCP>, mojo@mp-mojo.UUCP (Mojo Jones) writes: > >There was one other pragmatic argument that he presented: If you're > >going to wear out and blow a bulb filament, better to blow the high > >beam than the low. > > > >Also, nifty trick if you *do* blow both filaments and have to get > >home or somewhere: Take the cover off the front left (or right) > >turn signal, and pull the bulb from the left (or right) rear signal > >so the flasher won't work. Clever. > > ??? Why disable the flasher when the headlamp has burned out ??? The point is to provide you with a forward pointing white light of reasonable brightness. If you don't disable the flasher, then the bulb that I suggested that you uncover will blink. Mojo ... Morris Jones, MicroPro Int'l Corp., Product Development Northern Calif. Motorcycle Safety Council, MSF Instructor {lll-crg,ptsfa,dual,well,pyramid}!micropro!mp-mojo!mojo Not the opinion of MicroPro! Democracy: The bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people. -- John Galt