rfg@hound.UUCP (R.GRANTGES) (03/29/85)
[]
Sometime ago I outlined a prospective trip to England this summer and
asked for photographic advice. I got a lot of good advice. I have
reduced it to about 208 lines, but it is still long.
I decided to go ahead and buy the big Lowepro bag and the Slik 1200
tripod. I was unable to find a PC lense for my old Nikon stuff at
a reasonable price (to me that's $100 max.). The post office told me
I shouldn't use international return mail coupons for complex, unintelligible
reasons, the bottom line of which was the mail goes by slow boat the wrong
way around the earth and takes a minimum of two months. They said I had to
wait and use English postage.k
My wife is up in arms over the bill for the bag, pod and film but she'll
cool down. I wanted to buy the film here because with so little time I
wasn't about to go shopping around for stuff like that. I did, perhaps,
go a bit overboard with 30 rolls, but what the hell ...Best of all (for
my masochistic streak) its english film. I'm girded for battle with the
treasury (?) over paying duty twice.
Dick Grantges hound!rfg
Subject: Re: cathedral photography in England
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I did not mean to imply, in my response to the person planning to do
cathedral photography in England, that you couldn't take photos in
cathedrals. Most cathedrals allow non-flash, non-tripod photography
at any time. Notable exceptions are Westminster Abbey and the Chapel
(St. Georges?) at Windsor Castle. Without flash or tripod there is
little for you to do inside a cathedral except take pictures of the
stained glass windows. Westminister Abbey, I believe, was the place
that had photography sessions on Tuesday afternoon, or something, like
that. I wasn't there on the right day. One place I asked about a permit
and was told the person in charge of permits wouldn't be in until that
afternoon. I didn't have time on my itinerary to wait around.
So I stand by my warning. If you are planning SERIOUS cathedral photography,
you had better plan ahead or you will be frustrated frequently in your
efforts.
Vick Bennison
...decvax!decwrl!rhea!tools!bennison
Hi,
I suggest you send self-addressed envelopes with TWO international
reply coupons each (available in post offices)(why two, I don't know, but
that seems to be the number) to the Cathedrals in question, with a form
letter asking for their policy on flash, tripod, or regular photography,
what the fees are and to whom to apply. Tell them that you will be on a
tour and would like written permission in advance if that is possible.
You might go so far as to suggest that their cooperation would be rewarded
by a reasonable donation to the church's renovation fund (they are all under
constant renovation).
I wish you the best of luck. I didn't mean to put a damper on your
enthusiasm, only to set your expectations a little more realistically.
I got some lovely shots, regardless of the restrictions, and the Cathedrals
are magnificent. Which ones are you going to, by the way? I should mention
that the other enemy of photographers of cathedrals is scaffolding. Almost
all of the cathedrals we visited had large parts of their exteriors covered
with scaffolding. That was two years ago, but I think it is a neverending
saga.
Vick Bennison
I never saw your original posting and replied to a followup, but if you are
making the trip you mention, I have additional suggestions:
Try to get to Sherborn Abbey in Dorset (rail service to London); it's a gem of
Perpendicular vaulting on a more human scale than Gloucester or Kings College
Cambridge. Also in Dorset is Bere Regis church (Kingsbere in "Tess of the
Durbervilles") which has an interesting painted wooden ceiling which is
lit up by a coin-in-slot floodlight system (but you need a car or willingness
to ride local buses to get there).
I was going to recommend my favorite cathedral but I can't decide on one.
John Purbrick
decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-hermes!jpexg
---
Wow! Are all these on one Amex tour?? Or are you just planning to book
a local tour for each one? If so, why??? Most of these cathedrals are in
the center of town. Why not just take a bus and spend as much time as you
want in each one? Frankly, on a tight itinerary like yours, I would rent
a car and do my own getting from one place to another. You'll waste much
less time that way. I don't see how you can fit in all the places you want
to go in 3 1/2 weeks without a car.
Now, since your itinerary is already so tight you probably can't make it, I'll
suggest two other places of photographic delight. The first is Conwy Castle
in Conwy, (Northern) Wales. I shot up two rolls of film (36 exp) there and had
so many beautiful shots that I had a hard time selecting the ones to put into
the trip album. We had a gorgeous sunny day there, which helped. If you've
seen the PBS show "Castle" by the guy (hell, what's his name, the one who did
the books "Pyramid", "Castle", "City", "Cathedral"), it's based on Conwy castle.
It's his favorite castle, and mine also. By the way, if you haven't seen the
books "Cathedral" and "Castle" you should read them before you go. They are
fascinating and very informative, even if at first glance they look like they
are for kids.
The other place is Fountains Abbey outside of York. It's an old ruined abbey.
It has lots of good photo opportunities. It's a nice quiet place to walk
around, too.
Vick Bennison
From rfg Mon Mar 11 12:40 EST 1985
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I think I left out a few. Like Conwy Castle, but the one near York is new,
thanks.
You are certainly right. We are not going to have time to do this right. But
we should get a few good shots at each and have reasonable time at some. We
are taking two Amex bus tours back-to-back. One called Shakespeare Country
(I think) and the other (new this year) called ....hmmm Camelot. Goes to
SW england incl Tintagel, portsmouth, etc. Each tour starts and ends in
London. After the second, we take a one day bus tour to Canterbury. That
ojmne stops at ... another Cath. on the way. Then a train to York and either
rent a car or bus tours (one day each) to Castle Howard and things in that
direction, the dales, Durham. Plus a day and a half spent in York itself.
Then back by train to London for about 3 days. I would like to take an addtl
2 days for Lincoln, Ely and Peterborough, but we haven't included it and
my wife thinks enuf is enuf. Of course there's a long list in London. I
know this is hectic, but we have a tradition of such vacations, from which one returns needing to rest up. In 1970 and 1971 we spent 4 weeks each summer on the road touring the Western US and we had a ball. Then around 78 or 79 we spent
5 weeks driving to Alaska and back, which was really like 3 vacations in one.
WE took a flying visit (by car) to Glacier Nat'l Park in '75 that was memorable.
One day actually in the park, all behind a camera lens - see the park when you
get home. I love it! I would love taking three times as long, too, but we
don't have the time or money. This trip to London will be our first out of
the country and we are both 54. sigh.
Dick Grantges hound!rfg
From: packard!harvard!macrakis
Even forgetting the disruptive effect of flash, you probably don't want
to use it anyway, except perhaps for certain details (carvings etc.).
Tripod is best. Note that film is non-linear at long exposures. If you
plan to do much tripod/long exposure photography, you might want to look
into Kodak's Professional Photographer's Handbook (I don't know the
exact title), which will tell you about this "reciprocity failure".
---
I've been thinking about it, and I'd like to make a suggestion. Why not
replace some of the one and two star cathedrals on your list with some
non-cathedral three star attractions. Or just remove them, period, so that
you have more time to spend with the really great ones. Of course, maybe you
or your wife are really into cathedrals and don't want to miss any of them.
I've already mentioned Conwy and Fountains Abbey. I'd include Hadrian's
Wall (Housesteads and Vinolanda, particularly), Cambridge (King's college
Chapel is gorgeous and you can go punting on the canals), walk around the
city walls at Chester and go shopping in the Chester Rows. Coventry
cathedral was totally destroyed during WWII and I believe the cathedral there
now is modern. Exeter is a one star cathedral, nice but not great.
Be sure to see the Roman Baths in Bath. York Cathedral just had a major
fire and I don't know what shape it's in for tourists.
Of the cathedrals you mention, the ones I've seen and recommend highly are
Salisbury, Winchester, Canterbury, Wells, York and Westminster Abbey.
Personally I'm not that fond of St. Paul's, but many would disagree with
me. I haven't seen Bristol, Bangor, Coventry, Rochester, Durham, Ripon, or
Battle Abbey. David Macaulay, by the way, is the guy who wrote all those
books I mentioned.
Vick Bennison
From rfg Mon Mar 11 23:31 EST 1985
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Peace, peace. We can7t see everything. My wife says that Fountains Abbey
is on our list. Also the walls and shops in Chester. Bangor is not much,
but we are taking a one day drive yourself out of the amex tour to go over
past Conwy to the little town of Llanllechid which is near Bangor. My
wife's father's great grandmother or something came from there and the
whole party has to see it. We are leaving the tour after it sees
Chester and rejoining it one day later at Stratford-on-Avon which we are
not keen to see. We know much of this won't be in sufficient depth, but
the theory says that we can always go back again. I think we may not make
Ripon, but we are trying hard for Hadrians Wall at Household's(?).
Joan would love to make Cambridge as she spent a couple of days at Oxford
on her first trip, but we see no way to do it.
Dick Grantges hound!rfg
Felt a compulsion to reply, although I don't think I can't contribute any
substantial advice. One is always between a rock and a hard place on such
a trip. The only substantial advice I can give is to do a hard think about
equipment you might possibly not need. For instance, if you are not
shooting in both black and white and color, you might settle for one body
and rewind out a partially-used cassette when you need to change film
speeds. An other for-instance is that the 70 to 210 will be of use in a
limited number of circumstances, particularly in England. If you are going
to photograph a horse show or a zoo, you probably want it.
I lived for seven and a half years in England. Five years after returning
here, we went back for a 30-day visit. It was a wonderful experience. We
had enough friends that, with the exception of five days in London, we
never payed a hotel bill; just visited people. Anyway, a few years before
this trip, I did some upgrading of my equipment. Prior to that time, I had
a Nikkormat and a Rollei 35. I always had a hell of a problem deciding
which of those two dissimilar cameras to put the color film in. Finally
bought a second body, an FM-2, a 70-210 and 28-90, both Vivitar Series 1.
At that point, realized that I had to stop acting like a bloody beginner:
carrying the cameras and lenses in individual cases, so bought the smallest
Lowepro that would hold everything.
With the tripod thrown in, the whole mess came to almost 14 pounds. When
we were planning the trip, my wife asked me if I really wanted to lug all
that crap all over England. I thought: well, we lived there for over seven
years and took a helluva lot of pictures, so what else is new? Said, oh
hell, I'll just take the Rollei. There I was, back at square one. How do
I do both B & W and color? The obvious thing was to buy a second pocket
machine. Bought an XA, fortunately well in advance. Put a few rolls
through it and decided the lens wasn't quite good enough to enlarge a
cropped negative to 8 X 10. Didn't want to buy a second Rollei because the
company was going bankrupt and my first Rollei had been a bit of a
maintenance headache. Finally bought a Minox GT, which it turns out has an
exceptionally good lens. Gave the XA to my wife, who does not have time
for darkroom work these days, so just runs Kodacolor through it and has 4 x
6 prints made commercially. As long as that is all it is used for, one
cannot tell the difference between it and a camera with a better lens.
If you are going to take long time exposures inside of cathedrals on color
film, you better get some advice on a correction filter. Reciprocity law
failure will guarantee a greenish picture.
Well, as I said at the start, don't have much to offer except sympathy.
Herb Kanner
Two years ago I spent 3 weeks in England, photographing many cathedrals.
The one lens I didn't have at the time (but have since acquired) that
would have been the most useful is the 35TS (a "shift" lens for Canon
cameras). Several of my photographs have a very distressing amount
of distortion which could have been eliminated. Even though expensive,
I think that shift lenses are indespensible if one is serious about
architectural or interior photography.
--
"It's the thought, if any, that counts!" Dick Grantges hound!rfg