[net.rec.photo] filters

len10@ihuxw.UUCP (06/10/83)

What are the practical differences between 1A skylight and UV filters?

Len Dombrowski
BTL - Naperville, ILL.

brad@sdcrdcf.UUCP (06/16/83)

In reference to the question about Skylight 1A and UV filters:

Both the Skylight 1A and UV filter some blue-violet-ultraviolet. The UV is
specifically used for the Ultra-Violet, while the 1A also 'warms' the scene
somewhat. If you look closely at each, the 1A is 'pink', while the UV is
visibly clear. (It wouldn't be if you could see UV)

The reason for filtering UV is because the film in your camera is not
sensative to the same range as your eye, it can 'see' the UV, which will
make your photographs come out bluer than normal. This is normally not a
problem, but can be, especially at midday and at high altitudes. In these
cases, sunlight is considered 'cool', because it consists of a high
percentage of 'blue' light, as opposed to morning, evening or low altitudes
where the light has less blue and more 'red', thus being 'warmer'.

They are both also used as lens protectors, since they pass what you see
relatively unchanged (except 1A is slightly redder) and are much cheaper
than a lens. I don't want the warming of a 1A usually, so all my lenses are
fronted with a UV. The distortion of a good quality filter is usually
negligible.

					Brad Spear
					sdcrdcf!brad

dkw@homxb.UUCP (D.WOMBOUGH) (12/11/85)

Can anyone recomend a filter that will correct the yellow tint
that is produced when a photo is taken with indoor lighting.
Also is there a filter that will allow me to use high speed film
(iso 1000) outside in brite sun light without shooting at 1/1000 sec
at f22 ?


		Thanks 
			Dennis Wombough

howard@sfmag.UUCP (H.M.Moskovitz) (12/13/85)

> Can anyone recomend a filter that will correct the yellow tint
> that is produced when a photo is taken with indoor lighting.
> Also is there a filter that will allow me to use high speed film
> (iso 1000) outside in brite sun light without shooting at 1/1000 sec
> at f22 ?
> 
> 
> 		Thanks 
> 			Dennis Wombough

The reason you get a yellow tint indoors is that you are using a film
that is balanced for the color temperature of sunlight as opposed to
lightbulbs (also known as tungsten light). To use that film indoors
with incandescent lighting you need a # 82B blue filter. To shoot under
flourescent lighting you need a light pink filter (53??).

Another solution to the problem is to use a film that is color balanced
for use with tungsten lighting. Kodak makes both print and slide films
like that as well as Fuji, 3M, and Agfa. The 3M tungsten slide film is ASA 640!

As far as shooting ASA 1000 in bright sun, it better not to. Use a slower
film that will not need such small apertures and at the same time will
give much better resolution (less grain) and color saturation. I reccomend
ASA 200 as an all-around outdoor film or ASA400 for cloudier low-light days.

If you must use a filter to reduce light, you want a Neutral Density
filter. This is a grey filter that reduces light by a certain number
of f-stops without affecting color balance or resolution. They come in
different 'strengths'. A 2x filter reduces 1 f-stop while an 8x reduces 4.
These are very useful for shooting into the sun in the afternoon. They can
also be stacked to have an additive effect (i.e., a 2x + a 2x = a 4x).


-- 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
					Howard Moskovitz
					AT&T Info. Systems
					attunix!howard

mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (Damballah Wedo) (12/13/85)

> Dennis Wombough:
> Can anyone recomend a filter that will correct the yellow tint
> that is produced when a photo is taken with indoor lighting.

The orange cast is due to the color of the light itself, which has much
less blue than sunlight. To emphasize what blue there is, try using
80A or 80B blue filters. I have found that they almost-but-not-quite
correct tungsten light orange casting. What cast is left tends to add
golden hues to human skin and generally deepens earth tones, which is
pleasant.

Of course, you can avoid the problem entirely, by using black-and-white film.

> Also is there a filter that will allow me to use high speed film
> (iso 1000) outside in brite sun light without shooting at 1/1000 sec
> at f22 ?

There are various neutral (e.g. gray) filters, that do not affect the
color of the light reaching the film, but diminish its intensity.
You can also try shooting with slower film (finer grain).
-- 
Marcel-Franck Simon		ihnp4!{mhuxr, hl3b5b}!mfs

		" Krik."			"Krak."
		" Kapite`n anba kabann."	"Vaz."

darryl@ism780c.UUCP (Darryl Richman) (12/13/85)

In article <1002@homxb.UUCP> dkw@homxb.UUCP (D.WOMBOUGH) writes:
>Also is there a filter that will allow me to use high speed film
>(iso 1000) outside in brite sun light without shooting at 1/1000 sec
>at f22 ?

You can buy neutral density filters that will decrease the light entering by
1, 2, and 3 f stops.  I've also heard of using a polarizing filter, but that
can do weird things to the sky.

            --Darryl Richman, INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.
            ...!cca!ima!ism780!darryl
            The views expressed above are my opinions only.

kemasa@sdcc13.UUCP (kemasa) (12/13/85)

In article <1002@homxb.UUCP> dkw@homxb.UUCP (D.WOMBOUGH) writes:
>Can anyone recomend a filter that will correct the yellow tint
>that is produced when a photo is taken with indoor lighting.

	I can't remember the filter number, but if you look at
the paper that comes with the film, now on the inside of the box
on Kodak film it will say.  It is a blue filter I think an 81a.
Also the is a filter for tungsten (sp?) films to be able to shoot
outdoors.  Any camera store will be able to tell you want the filter
is.  You could just use a blue filter, but I would suggest using the
correct one or using a flash.

>Also is there a filter that will allow me to use high speed film
>(iso 1000) outside in brite sun light without shooting at 1/1000 sec
>at f22 ?
>			Dennis Wombough

	Neutral Density filters do this job and come in several densities,
it is also useful if you want a more limited depth of field with normal
films and/or slower shutter speeds.  There are filter to do just about
anything, photo magazines sometimes have articles on different filters.
As a side note I hope you and everyone reading this uses a filter all
the time to protect the lens, like a UV filter or whatever.  I don't know
if this has been brought up before or not, but it can really save your
lens.

					Kemasa.

ron@brl-sem.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (12/14/85)

> Can anyone recomend a filter that will correct the yellow tint
> that is produced when a photo is taken with indoor lighting.
> Also is there a filter that will allow me to use high speed film
> (iso 1000) outside in brite sun light without shooting at 1/1000 sec
> at f22 ?
> 
Go to your camera store and ask, I can never remember the numbers.
The common one (80A?) is for tungsten photo floods.  As I recall this
is not quite the same as normal room lighting, so perhaps they have
a better one.  I typically end up buying one to make my tungsten film
good with my flash/daylight (82?) and shooting tungsten film indoors.
I usually need the extra stop or two that the filter takes when shooting
by ambient tungsten, and need it less in daylight or with flash.
Florescent and various vapour lamps are a different story, but you
said yellow, so I'll assume you're problem is tungsten.

To just cut down on light, use a Neutral Density (ND1, ND2) filter.
This appears just to be a grey hunk of glass.  ND5 is recommended
for taking direct pictures of the sun (I shot some series of a solar
eclipse a few years ago).

-Ron

thoth@tellab3.UUCP (Marcus Hall) (12/16/85)

References:


Since the subject has come up, what books are reccomended for learning
about filter usage?

Also, when using a filter with a through the lense meter, is it necessary
to adjust the exposure by the filter's f-stop rating?  Does altering the
spectrum of light being metered confuse the metering system?

Please Mail responses!
Thanks,
marcus hall
..!ihnp4!tellab1!tellab2!thoth

howard@sfmag.UUCP (H.M.Moskovitz) (12/16/85)

> 
> Since the subject has come up, what books are reccomended for learning
> about filter usage?
> 
> Also, when using a filter with a through the lense meter, is it necessary
> to adjust the exposure by the filter's f-stop rating?  Does altering the
> spectrum of light being metered confuse the metering system?
> 

Since the TTL metering system measures light intensity as it hits
the film plane, adding filters is compensated accordingly. Metering
systems do not know anything about color so this has no effect.

-- 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
					Howard Moskovitz
					AT&T Info. Systems
					attunix!howard

kanner@tymix.UUCP (Herb Kanner) (12/18/85)

In article <394@sdcc13.UUCP> kemasa@sdcc13.UUCP (kemasa) writes:
>	Neutral Density filters do this job and come in several densities,
>it is also useful if you want a more limited depth of field with normal
>films and/or slower shutter speeds.  There are filter to do just about
>anything, photo magazines sometimes have articles on different filters.
>As a side note I hope you and everyone reading this uses a filter all
>the time to protect the lens, like a UV filter or whatever.  I don't know
>if this has been brought up before or not, but it can really save your
>lens.
>
>					Kemasa.

The notion of always protecting a lens with a low-effect filter, such as a
UV filter, is considered very controversial among professional
photographers.  The reason is that any extra glass-to air interface, even
with modern coatings, reduces image contrast measurably.  I have read
articles or chapters in books in which it is recommended to use the UV
filter either when it is needed, or when one is in a hostile environment,
such as the sea shore.

Personally, I have compromised.  I do not keep a filter in simple lenses,
which can be replaced for between $50 and $100.  I do keep a filter in zoom
lenses and vari-focal lenses.

-- 
Herb Kanner
Tymnet, Inc.
...!hplabs!oliveb!tymix!kanner

amr@rti-sel.UUCP (Alan Roberts) (12/18/85)

In article <814@sfmag.UUCP> howard@sfmag.UUCP (H.M.Moskovitz) writes:
>  . . . 
>Since the TTL metering system measures light intensity as it hits
>the film plane, adding filters is compensated accordingly. Metering
>systems do not know anything about color so this has no effect.
>  . . .

True enough (at least in my experience, which doesn't include any
critical scientific photography or the like), but one type of filter
which CAN trip up the TTL metering of SOME cameras is a polarizer.
It doesn't happen to all cameras (I think it is related to use of a
half-silvered mirror to direct light to the metering sensors).  I
also think a summer issue of some mag. (Peterson's ?) had a fair
list of which 35mm bodies were sensitive to the problem and which
were immune.  You can also purchase a "circular" polarizing filter
which doesn't cause the problem (they are more expensive). 

					Cheers,

					Alan Roberts
					Research Triangle Institute
					(decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!amr)
-- 


					Cheers,

					Alan Roberts
					Research Triangle Institute
					(decvax!mcnc!rti-sel!amr)

kanner@tymix.UUCP (Herb Kanner) (12/19/85)

In article <814@sfmag.UUCP> howard@sfmag.UUCP (H.M.Moskovitz) writes:
>> 
>> Since the subject has come up, what books are reccomended for learning
>> about filter usage?
>> 
>> Also, when using a filter with a through the lense meter, is it necessary
>> to adjust the exposure by the filter's f-stop rating?  Does altering the
>> spectrum of light being metered confuse the metering system?
>> 
>
>Since the TTL metering system measures light intensity as it hits
>the film plane, adding filters is compensated accordingly. Metering
>systems do not know anything about color so this has no effect.
>
>-- 
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>					Howard Moskovitz
>					AT&T Info. Systems
>					attunix!howard

Not strictly true.  True for most practical purposes.  If the spectral
response of the meter differs sufficiently from that of the film, there
will be a net change in effective film exposure when the filter is used.
This can be checked if the film and/or filter manufacturer has supplied a
filter factor and if the camera has read-outs telling what it is doing.
See what the readings are before and after attaching the filter and see if
the reading change is consistent with the published filter factor.

I certainly remember that for certain really extreme filters, e.g. red,
meant to be used with B & W film, that the factor varied quite a bit from
one film to another.  In fact, you sure as hell wouldn't use a red filter
with orthochromatic film :-)
-- 
Herb Kanner
Tymnet, Inc.
...!hplabs!oliveb!tymix!kanner