info-cpm (12/09/82)
>From STORK@Mit-Mc Thu Dec 9 01:18:18 1982
To: STORK@Mit-Mc, info-cpm@BRL, info-micro@BRL
Via: Mit-Mc; 8 Dec 82 21:12-EST
Via: Brl; 8 Dec 82 21:19-EST
Via: Brl-Bmd; 8 Dec 82 21:31-EST
Subject: Comments on 'Portable' Micros.
On December 4, I asked CPM-INFO and CPM-MICRO readers for comment
on what 'portable' micro to get for my college-bound son who has
used my system for his written work for over two years now.
I got a number of responses to my question. I suspect that many
people may be interested in this informal survey of user views,
so have cleaned up (i.e., removed extraneous routing data, and
corrected typos) the responses. I have made no substantive
changes whatsoever to the responses -- just organized them a bit
to make them easier to read.
If there are additional views -- especially views or ideas not
expressed below -- send them to me. If I get enough to make it
worthwhile, I'll update and resubmit to the network.
Eric Stork STORK at MIT-MC Dec 8, 1982
COMMENTS ON PORTABLE MICROS
From: Jeffrey at OFFICE
Get one which is as compatible as possible with the IBM PC which
will soon take over the micro world like the 370 has taken over
mainframes. Look at the COMPAQ. Its pretty compatible but you
can't plug all the PC option board from third party vendors into
COMPAQ. The CORONA is more compatible but I don't know anything
about its quality. Jeffrey Stone Menlo Park, CA
^_
From: mknoxUTEXAS-11
The OSBORNE has a lot of users, many of whom are no doubt going
to respond to your query. The factory responsiveness has been
excellent, possibly because Osborne himself is somewhat conscious
of his reputation. At $1795 there is no question that it is
worth the money. I recently had a chance to play with an ATTACHE
($3995.) and liked it. At more than twice the price it does (and
better) offer a better, more expandable system. Jerry Pournelle
(Pourne at MIT-MC) did a brief review in the latest BYTE on the
ATTACHE, and he also has an OSBORNE. Screen is very crisp, and a
lot more flexible with raster graphics dot addressable, but it
sure is small! For serious work I think you are going to need a
bigger monitor for whichever you get (both have them available).
^_
From: UCBARPA.dag at Ucb-C70 (David Allen Gewirtz)
New machines were just released at Comdex this past week.
Unfortunately, my literature hasn't shown up yet, so I will work
from memory.
There were a number of new CP/M portables announced, most
notably the Jonos Computer out of Anaheim, CA using the new Sony
floppies. Cute little toy, uses STD bus, so it can be diddled.
On the 8088 side, there were a few released, most notably the DOT
from Computer Devices of Burlington MA, the Chameleon from
someplace, and the Compac, also from someplace, but my guess as
the winner.
The DOT: an 8088 machine using Sony 3" floppies. Not bad.
The Chameleon. "IBM PC Compatible" selling for $1995 and
using an 8088 and Z80..best price machine, but company seemed
underfunded. Wouldn't take a chance.
The Compac - funded by Sevin Rosen and designed to be
hardware and software compatible with the IBM PC. This means
that you can go out and buy the thing and with add on cards use
any processor from a Z80 - 8088 - 8086 - 286 - 68000 and OS's
from CP/M - PC-DOS - CP/M-86 - Concurrent CP/M
XENIX: Since its heavily funded and a rather nice machine
and portable it would be the best bet. Look to magazine adds or
ask you local computer stores. It should be getting lots of
press. I would probably check it out over the Kaypro. Don't buy
an Osborne. David
^_
From: Keith Petersen <W8SDZ at MIT-MC>
When you told him not to buy an Osborne, did you consider the new
one which is supposed to have double-density disks and a larger
screen? That might be worth a few comments to the Info-Cpm list,
if you're familiar with it. I haven't seen it myself - only
heard about it via messages on CompuServe CP-MIG.
^_
From: Stephen King <G.KING at SU-SCORE>
Here's some trivial input. I've had the Osborne demonstrated to
me and have worked the KayPro for the past two days... so I
can't speak from much experience on those.
I do own a Heath H8 and Apple ][+, had an Atari 400 and am
systems manager for several large-scale systems and micros at
work. The screen on the Osborne is too small. The KP keyboard
has a nice feel and the screen size is 1002 better. The
characters are larger and eye fatigue should be less. The KP was
about $100 cheaper. Seems the Osborne was a little heavier and
was not constructed as durable as the KP. I saw that the KP
scratched a little on the keyboard, but that came about from the
owner sitting the KP ON the keyboard to angle the CRT for a
better view. I thought the drives were a little noisy on the KP,
don't remember the Osborne; but then again... I think the Apple
drives are noisy. The Heath drives are very quiet. I liked the
removable keyboard on the KP. All in all, I would suggest the
KP! Hope this helps... Steve King
^_
From: Andrew Scott Beals <RMS.G.BANDY at MIT-OZ>
The osborne is great and wonderful. My serial number is 825(!).
Its had heavy use for over a year, and it's still hanging
together. you might wanna checkout the new morrow or godbout.
the Kaypro (aka the K-mart computer) really isn't too good. The
disks are slow and you don't get as much doc as with the osborne.
also, the O1 runs at 4mHz (the kmart runs at 2.25 for some
strange reason). If you have ANY questions about the O1
^_
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNEMIT-MC>
The Osborne is the VW of the portables, and features good
introductory documentation, a GOOD dealer net with service etc.,
and very vanilla hardware features. Lots of bundled software all
good.
The KayPro is a good machine, hardware speaking, but hasn't
much good software with it. The screen flickers; try it first,
you may no be able to stand it. The KayPro screen is big enough
to use alone; both Osborne and Otrona will require a larger
monitor for on-station use.
The Otrona is the BMW of the portables, and I agree with the
referenced message about it; darned good machine. I have one.
The dealer and service net is growing and well done also. But
you will need a larger screen; fortunately there is a video out
on the back for putting it on a monitor.
You can use Otrona without monitor, of course, and for a day
or two is no problem; but I would hate to have to do it all the
time. I carry an Otrona to all the computer shows; I can have my
choice of a lot of them. There is a new machine, ZORBA, out at
COMDEX; looked good, competitively priced with Osborne and
Kaypro. Don't know about dealers, software, or service.
Hyperion is interesting; as is the new Teleray small computer
which has a 4-line liquid crystal screen (and a video outlet; the
4 lines are a window into a 24 line display of course). It looks
good and should not be ignored.
Osborne 80 cols available in January, retrofit is about $100
install and $75 for mod, I believe; but after Jan it will
come with it, I think. Just now you can get dBase-II with an old
Osborne single-density disk system, plus a coupon to get double
density mod, plus if you get double density and 80 cols
installed at same time the installation fee is once only (ie
$100 for both not $100 each).
As I said earlier, Osborne has good service. Otrona is
groovy machine but expensive. I like them both. Kaypro you want
to look at. It's nice but there are funny things.
^_
From: teklabs!tekcrd!tekmdp!scotth at Ucb-C70
[or tektronix!tekmdp!scotth at UCB-C70 (?)]
Regarding portables for sons-off-to-college: I have used the
Kaypro-II, thought it an adequate solution. The Osborne doesn't
please me very much, but I haven't seen it outside the showroom.
I do like the Kaypro for what it offers, which is a simple CP/M
system, without a whole lot of extra features. If 64K is enough
main store, and 200K on each of two drives is enough mass store,
then it ought to be adequate for a freshman or sophomore. The
best portable (truly defining the term "portable"; the Kaypro and
Osborne are merely "moveable") system, at least from my
engineering standpoint, is the OTRONA Attache. The Attache is
also a 64K CP/M system, 360K per shock-mounted disk drive. But
it has a LOT of big plusses, which can't all be listed here, but
include:
Real time clock
Bus extender (S-100, GPIB, STD)
DMA F interrupt driven
Graphics (damn good, too)
comes with Wordstar (customized to keyboard), MBASIC(for
what
it's worth), software to utilize the clock, graphics
tools, a RPN calculator, nice version of CP/M...
The cost is a little higher ($3995), but it's engineering cost
well spent. The system is professional, hard disk, 16-bit
processor are planned extensions, battery-pack is available,
12-volt for use in campers etc, high-resolution screen, the list
is long. The machine is an 8-bitter that will carry the user a
long way into the future (specifically through college and
graduate school and them some). I am impressed with the machine
and plan to acquire one. You may wish to contact OTRONA at
OTRONA Corporation
4755 Walnut Street
Boulder, Colorado 80301(303) 444-8100 My name is
Scott Herzinger
Software Engineering
Microcomputer Development Products
Tektronix, Inc
PO Box 500, MS 92/525
Beaverton, Oregon
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