info-cpm (12/10/82)
>From goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay Thu Dec 9 23:43:15 1982
To: Tony <Li@Rutgers>
Cc: info-cpm@BRL
Via: UCF-CS; 9 Dec 82 4:29-EST
Via: Udel-Relay; 9 Dec 82 15:46-EST
Via: Brl; 9 Dec 82 16:08-EST
Via: Brl-Bmd; 9 Dec 82 16:20-EST
Further to my complaint about XLT86, I finally got around to reading the
manual from DRI. (This is always the final step around here). The
memory overflow problem is indeed documented, to wit:
(page 27)
4.3 Memory Overflow
"The XLT86 program occupies approximately 30K bytes of main
memory. The remainder of memory, up to the base of CP/M, stores the
program graph that represents the 8086 program being translated [sic].
The error message:
ERROR (7) "Free Space Exhausted"
is issued if the program graph exceeds available memory. A 64K CP/M
system allows translation of 8080 programs of up to approximately 6K. [!!!!]
The above error causes XLT86 to terminate. To continue, you
must divide your source program into smaller modules and retry the
translation."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if DRI is trying to impose modular programming practices upon us,
that is just about as bad as Godbout "requiring" CP/M purchasers to
purchase a Sorcim assembler to maintain their BIOS. While DRI used
some nice dataflow analysis in XLT86, that is of little consequence
when most of my programs are larger than "6k" and, therefore, can't
be translated. I feel like I got "soaked" for $150 at this point.
Beninfo-cpm (12/15/82)
>From POURNE@Mit-Mc Mon Dec 13 01:33:05 1982
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay
Cc: info-cpm@BRL, Li@Rutgers
Via: Mit-Mc; 11 Dec 82 3:04-EST
Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 3:20-EST
Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 3:31-EST
Was ist mit the sorcim act for teh Godbout BIOS? We assemble
ours with RMAC and it works very well.info-cpm (12/16/82)
>From goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay Mon Dec 13 21:41:24 1982
To: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>, goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay
Cc: info-cpm@BRL, Li@Rutgers
Via: UCF-CS; 11 Dec 82 22:12-EST
Via: Udel-Relay; 11 Dec 82 22:34-EST
Via: Brl; 11 Dec 82 22:42-EST
Via: Brl-Bmd; 11 Dec 82 22:48-EST
Jerry,
As far as I know, Compupro has pasted together a CP/M-80 BIOS that
will work with DRI assemblers which is probably the one you are referring
to. However, they haven't done so yet for CP/M-86 (to my knowledge).
Following is a quote from Compupro's Techcal manual for CP/M-86:
REASSEMBLING THE CP/M 86 SYSTEM
"To reassemble the CP/M 86 system (which consists of the loader
and the CPM.SYS file, you will need the following:
1. Obviously you will need a working system.
2. A copy of ACT-86 from Sorcim.(*)
3. A working version of CP/M 80 with utilities.
.
.
.
------------------------------------------
(*) ACT-86 can be obtained for $175 from (address withheld
due to commercial
restrictions of
ARPA-land)
or probably from your local computer dealer."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that is some CHUTZPAH, in my humble opinion.
Beninfo-cpm (12/16/82)
>From POURNE@Mit-Mc Mon Dec 13 23:33:56 1982
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay
Cc: info-cpm@BRL, Li@Rutgers
Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:45-EST
Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:56-EST
Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:37-EST
I have CP/M 86 running with my dual processor 8085/8088;
the program came from Godbout and runs as it came (my system
uses all Godbout stuff, Interfacers and system support board);
it automatically checks memory size. I know little about it; I
am getting my own copy shortly (I have an older one I never
used) and meanwhile am running with one from a chap from
elsewhere (I'll errase it when my own comes; but I needed to
check the operation of the 8087 board; on that more later).
The CP/M 86 from CompuPro worked for me without any
reassembly at all; I suppose I could dig out ACT if I had to but
there was not need. Is it normal to have to reassamble to get
working? Or are there special things you need to do? I agrtee
one ought to have one's BIOS source, and I expect I'd be unhappy
if I had to buy a special assembler just to work with my own...info-cpm (12/16/82)
>From POURNE@Mit-Mc Mon Dec 13 23:35:28 1982
To: goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay
Cc: info-cpm@BRL, Li@Rutgers
Via: Mit-Mc; 12 Dec 82 2:46-EST
Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 2:57-EST
Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 3:38-EST
I had not known of the restriction son the CP/M-86 BIOS, and
thought in fact we were discussing the dual processor CP/M-80
BIOS. However, I understand what is happening. They GOT the
BIOS from SORCIM. Digital Research for better or worse WILL
NOT deal with individuals regarding CPM-86. I understand that
their attitude was in large part responsible for IBM going to
MSDOS; that may be wrong, but th sstory comes from one who ought
to know.
Godbout doesn't do software; they buy it from others
(and to my certain knowledge no outfit is locked in with them,
either; I saw Godbout hire someone from outside to do some of
their software at COMDEX). They needed something that runs;
SRCIM was willing to supply it; SORCIM naturally wrote it with
their own assembler in mind.
In my judgment, Digital has got a bit too big to care
much for the users. They have taken the examples out of
documents; they yhave taken the Pascal MT+86 documents, and the
Speed Programming Package documents; and made them from not too
good to absolutely horrid and unreadable; and they seem to be
working at that sort of thing. They can, after all, make far
more by selling to OEM's (which is where the money is).
On the other hand, a sufficiently bright hacker could
com eup with a well documented easy to use operating system that
was upward compatible with MSDOS and CP/M (by means of
translators perhaps) and offer some frienddliness to users, and
some willingness to prepare sane documents understandalbe to
users, and t ake over DR's place before Kildall knows what is
happening; the SUPPLIERS and OEM's are not happy with having to
supply documents (or buy them from Rodney Zaks)...
So: some see problems, some see chalenges, and some see
opportunities... Anyone thinking of doing an operating system
for thed 8088 and 8086 machiens? I know lots of customers, and
maybe the documents could be written better by a chimpanzee I
know...
Date: 11 Dec 82 15:15:02 EST (Sat)
From: Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay>
To: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE>, goldfarb.ucf-cs at Udel-Relay
cc: info-cpm at BRL, Li at Rutgers
Re: 8080 to 8086 translation
Jerry,
As far as I know, Compupro has pasted together a CP/M-80 BIOS that
will work with DRI assemblers which is probably the one you are referring
to. However, they haven't done so yet for CP/M-86 (to my knowledge).
Following is a quote from Compupro's Techcal manual for CP/M-86:
REASSEMBLING THE CP/M 86 SYSTEM
"To reassemble the CP/M 86 system (which consists of the loader
and the CPM.SYS file, you will need the following:
1. Obviously you will need a working system.
2. A copy of ACT-86 from Sorcim.(*)
3. A working version of CP/M 80 with utilities.
.
.
.
------------------------------------------
(*) ACT-86 can be obtained for $175 from (address withheld
due to commercial
restrictions of
ARPA-land)
or probably from your local computer dealer."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, that is some CHUTZPAH, in my humble opinion.
Beninfo-cpm (12/16/82)
>From goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay Tue Dec 14 01:54:26 1982
To: Jerry E Pournelle <POURNE@Mit-Mc>, goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay
Cc: info-cpm@BRL, Li@Rutgers
Via: UCF-CS; 12 Dec 82 21:45-EST
Via: Udel-Relay; 12 Dec 82 21:44-EST
Via: Brl; 12 Dec 82 22:02-EST
Via: Brl-Bmd; 12 Dec 82 22:36-EST
I tend to agree that Godbout does a terrific job of supplying preconfigured
CPM's for just about every combination of their hardware. Unfortunately,
(but in some respects, fortunately), I augment the CompuPro stuff with a
CCS 4-port serial board that I have modified to do what I want. I need
a full-spec RS232 port to drive my Racal-Vadic, which I use for a RCP/M
system part of the time. But the rest is all Godbout: 8085/8088, memory,
Disk 1, and System Support 1.
Thus, BIOS programming is necessary in my case. I like to use an interrupt-
driven keyboard as well, and Sorcim does not provide for that. So I have
to modify the BIOS to handle that. I am also a hacker/tinkerer and I love
to play with CP/M. That's why I need to have an assembleable BIOS.
Ben