poli-sci (05/28/82)
>From JoSH@RUTGERS Fri May 28 14:35:15 1982
Poli-Sci Digest Fri 28 May 82 Volume 2 Number 137
Contents: Atom Bombs (2 msgs)
Leftist Agonistes (3 msgs)
Don't Let's Get Buffaloed
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Date: 25 May 1982 2154-PDT
From: CAULKINS at USC-ECL
Subject: Atom Bombs On Japan
[my apologies to ARMS-D people on this list who have seen a similar
message from me there]
The first use of nuclear weapons against civilians with no warning at
Hiroshima and Nagasaki was one of the most immoral acts in history.
Far better to have put the weapons aside and not to have given the
world such an awsome example of their power and our cruelty. This of
course would not have prevented the introduction of nuclear weapons,
but it would have delayed it. Unfortunately we Americans are by
nature activists; we want to solve the problem NOW and almost
automatically reject solutions requiring patience.
There were, of course, many courses of action open to us other than
invasion. Here's one of them: Japan has only one indigenous mineral
resource - coal. By a simple blockade we could have brought all
Japanese industrial (and military) operations to a halt. This would
have taken more time than the course we chose, but would have resulted
in far fewer casualties on both sides.
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Date: 26 May 1982 1411-EDT
From: Bill Hofmann <G.WDH at MIT-EECS at MIT-AI>
Subject: Bomb Attacks
We had to drop the bomb:
-----------------------
Well, as we all know, Jim, there were alternatives to dropping the bombs on
occupied targets. However, the military chose Hiroshima and Nagasaki
because they were virgin targets, ideal for bomb effect studies (see the
film Atomic Cafe).
A point of interest: the Russians agreed to stay out of the Pacific
theater until August of 1945. If the Russians HAD entered the Pacific War
in an offensive capability to a large degree, there would have had to have
been the same sort of power-sharing that there was in Europe. Some
analysts have suggested that that was why the US felt it necessary to end
the Pacific war dramatically and with finality BEFORE August.
-Bill
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Date: 26 May 1982 0921-PDT
From: Paul Dietz <DIETZ at USC-ECL>
Subject: Persecution of Leftists
I am amused when people who advocate massive coercion by the government
get upset when the government coerces them.
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Date: 26 May 1982 1511-EDT (Wednesday)
From: Robert.Frederking at CMU-10A (C410RF60)
Subject: Persecuted Nazis
Maybe I'm ignorant, but I can't recall any incident where the
government has done anything to the Nazis other than deny them parade
permits (which they usually get after a court fight). Are there in fact
such cases? I don't think the government is afraid of the Nazis, whereas
it appears to worry a lot about leftist subversives, presumably because
they are a more real threat to the status quo. The other major news I
can recall hearing about Nazis are cases where the government has been
lax on European Nazi war criminals.
As for the KKK, they certainly have been heavily monitored, but
then again, they have made a practice of beating, threatening, and some-
times killing people that they don't like. This would (to me) justify
FBI interference. Tell me, how many people have the Socialist Workers
killed? Or even beat the crap out of? They are being harassed for
advocating unpopular economics and politics, not for committing crimes.
In like manner, FBI watching of the SDS when they were burning down campus
ROTC facilities seems appropriate. Also, is there any evidence that a
right-wing parallel of SWP (the John Birch society, for instance) has been
molested for purely First Amendment guaranteed activities? I doubt it.
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Date: 26 May 1982 1411-EDT
From: Bill Hofmann <G.WDH at MIT-EECS at MIT-AI>
Subject: Right wing, minority
On the scope and direction of government harassement:
----------------------------------------------------
To Jim McGrath: Yes, I realize that the KKK and the Nazis were targets of
some level of FBI harassment (in fact, although I don't remember, I may
have mentioned that in my earlier message). My position has always been
that the government has no right to interfere with the freedom of
expression of ANY group.
However, you must remember that the actions of the KKK have been on the
whole violent (that is, lynching, murder, rape) rather than constructive
(voter registration drives, freedom rides, etc.). In addition, you may or
may not know that government infiltrators often led violence against
blacks, with no penalty. Note that infiltrators of leftist groups often
were strong advocates of violence as well.
The scope of harassment of dissidents on the left, however, has been much
larger than those on the right. I don't know of any city that has a
``Black'' (for fascist) squad, but most large cities have or had a ``Red
Squad'' which spied on anti-war and civil rights groups, and more recently,
on anti-nuclear groups. States have also infiltrated and harassed
anti-nuke groups (the most sterling example being the state of New
Hampshire). As if that weren't enough, private security groups (including
the wierdos of the US Labor Party) spy on and have infiltrated left groups,
often on contract to businesses.
Consider also the actions of grand juries around the country. Empowered to
call witnesses, they often are used (Nixon was an enthusiast about this) to
harass leftists. When investigating some act, they'll call people to
testify, typically asking them to name all their friends, their political
affiliations and what they did for the past n years (in detail), in other
words, to go on fishing expeditions. Typically, if you refuse to testify,
they'll grant you immunity from prosecution and force you to, or face
imprisonment for the term of the grand jury (usually ~18 months or so).
This has happened in the past few years to a good number of radical and
socialist feminists.
As for affecting only a small minority of the population, if about 1/2
million is small, then OK (that is roughly the number of people with some
file on them for non-criminal reasons). The number of political dissidents
in ANY country (including the USSR) is a small minority of the population.
As for redress of grievances of those harassed, I'd disagree that the
system inevitably works. No one would know ANYTHING about COINTELPRO and
the harassment of the civil rights movement unless a group of people hadn't
broken into a Pennsylvania FBI office, stealing loads of documents and
forcing the disclosure of many more.
The worst of all possible institutions:
--------------------------------------
While you may be right, APPLE, that ``our (western) institutions are the
worst possible ones, except for all the others,'' that doesn't let us off
the hook, or imply that our system isn't structurally wrong.
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Date: 27 May 1982 0956-PDT
From: WILKINS at SRI-AI (Wilkins )
Subject: Buffalos
At least our government is spending its time and money on important things. . .
From: Robert W. Kerns <RWK at SCRC-TENEX>
While reading today's Boston Glob...
Interior buffalo Reaganized
Reuter
WASHINGTON -- The buffalo that has been looking to the left for 132 years
on the emblem of the Interior Department has been redesigned and turned to
the right to emphasize President Ronald Reagan's conservative philosophy.
Reagan said at a reception for the American Retail Federation on Thursday
that Interior Secretary James Watt had given him a lapel button showing the
change.
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End of POLI-SCI Digest
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