cjh (08/09/82)
It seems that the opinions of an experienced ex-pilot with some regard for the vast majority of non-pilots are less than welcome in this discussion (although RMS has made this kind of unbalanced personal attack before and I suppose I should be used to it). This is one of the reasons I stopped flying; I wasn't interested in the high rates charged outsiders, and the clubs I saw had a basic attitude of "damn the groundhogs"---not as official policy (they weren't that stupid) but as the general attitude of the members. Face it---your toys (for such they are for most of the people on this net) are at best a nuisance to a lot of other people, and you don't even have the smokers' advantage of being a significant minority. A final note to Bernie: the last time I looked at climb tables a typical light plane was around 1.5 miles downrange \from the takeoff point/ by the time it reached 500 feet AGL (perhaps less with a lightly loaded plane); this tends to invalidate the observation of someone on the field
rob (08/10/82)
1.5 miles downrange before getting to 500 feet!!!!!!! cjh I can't believe that. My Cessna 172 is always at 500 feet by the boundary of the airport and at Hanscom, 5,000 ft runway, I'm hitting 900 feet at the boundary. Rob Wood (decvax!genradbolton!rob)
LRH@MIT-MC@sri-unix (08/10/82)
From: "Lyman R. Hazelton, Jr." <LRH at MIT-MC> As a current and active pilot who does care about others, and one who knows MANY other pilots who feel the same way, it is my opinion that your remarks have been way off the mark, and highly derogatory and insulting, as well. Among other things, I own and fly my airplane almost solely for business, as do a great number of private pilots. If the plane were not making money for me, I would not (could not) own it. It is not a toy any more than I would consider a hammer a toy or a terminal a toy. It is a tool, and I use it as such. It occurs to me that perhaps the view that you express is an image of your self. Perhaps, then, it is well that you have quit flying. I should not like the idea of being in the air with one whose opinions of his fellows (or himself) is so base. If you continue to make remarks which are unconstructive and insulting, you must expect to hear some form of retort. The fact that the retort has a personal flavor is because it is to you, personally, that they are directed. And if you can only continue as you have in the past week or so, perhaps it would be just as well if you were to quit this discussion, as you have flying, and go about your business elsewhere. Lyman
laura (08/11/82)
From csin.176 "toys (for such they are for most of the people on this net) are at best a nuisance to a lot of other people and you dont even have the smokers' advantage of being a significant minority." I think that this is extreme. I am a groundhog, and have never been in a light plane. I know a lot of people who fly, though, and they all seem to enjoy it, and that doesnt bother me a bit. I think the silent majority does not find airplanes a nuisance or a bother at all -- as opposed to cigar smokers who bother most people I know, whether or not they are a significant minority. In fact, I know several people who do not hesitate to forcibly remove people who smoke and tresspass into their (non-smoking) offices, and people who have quit their jobs when a new employee was hired who smoked and could not be persuaded to do so outside of the office. I even know one person who forcibly rips the cigarette/pipe/cigar/whatever from the mouthes of smokers and stomps on it -- but i dont know any pilots who complain of being assualted by disaproving groundhogs. Laura Creighton decvax!utzoo!laura