jackg@sri-unix (12/13/82)
I think that the probability of losing all communications due to some global electrical problem is high enough to be of real concern. I was about to embark on an IFR flight once and was still on the ground when a lot of smoke and electrical insulation smells started coming from under the panel. It was serious enough that there was no alternative but to open the master switch immediately. This situation posed no danger because I just taxied back to the ramp. It could as easily have happened in full IMC. I naturally thought about this situation quite a bit and decided that if it had happened when in solid, about the best bet would be to continue on my current altitude and heading for a while, letting them track me as a primary radar target (it's complete radar environment where I do all of my flying.) and I would probably (?) break out of the clouds after a while. If I did then I would begin flying the triangular lost communications pattern for a while if I couldn't see the ground. Naturally if I could see the ground, I would descend and find some nice place to land. Flying the lost communications pattern would tell ATC all they needed to know--namely that I couldn't talk or navigate and I couldn't get down. I believe their procedure is to send up a 'follow-me' plane in such a case. If I didn't break out then I guess I would fly the pattern for a while and CAREFULLY examine the area of a sectional where I thought I was and begin a cautious descent, hoping that the ceiling didn't extend to the ground, giving myself a pretty good margin for error for terrain avoidance. If I didn't see ground then I would start inventing more desperate schemes because I can't think of much rational to do at this point. However, I think the above procedures would handle most cases if the weather I have flown in has been anywhere near typical. Scary thought, isn't it. Jack Gjovaag Computer Research Labs, Tektronix
whaley (12/27/82)
#R:tekchips:-16400:uiucdcs:7900010:000:374 uiucdcs!whaley Dec 22 23:15:00 1982 If I descend through clouds it will be with full flaps and just enough above minimum speed to allow me some quick last second maneuvers without stalling it out. THis is the first time I have ever heard of a chase plane. I sure wouldn't volunteer to fly one where I am steered towards a scared pilot in the soup. If it was between layers, maybe, but what about descending?
deckert (12/28/82)
#R:tekchips:-16400:uiucdcs:7900011:000:828 uiucdcs!deckert Dec 27 16:40:00 1982 The idea of a follow-me plane is indeed a new one, since tha FAA has no a/c at it's disposal for other than facilties checks and VIP transport they might have a difficult time finding a volunteer. Ask a controller sometime about triangular lost comm patterns, at LA center they tell pilots not to bother, the controllers would never recognize them. Also few controllers set up their displays to show primary targets, indeed most also filter out vfr transponder codes. A descent isn't a real problem, if the pilot being led can fly good formation. Seldom is the stuff so solid that you can't see your wingtips. The USAF flies formation ILS approaches when they want to get a group of guys down in a short time. Lead flies the needles and wing locks onto the leads wingtip. Wouldn't want to do this with just anyone though.
dmmartindale (12/29/82)
Losing communications is probably not as rare as you'd like to think. During my first year of flying, I spent quite a bit of time in an old C150 owned by the student federation at Waterloo, which was cheaper to rent than the 152's available. The radio failed three different times while I was flying it, usually for only a few minutes at a time. (This plane has now been sold - I hope whoever buys it replaces the radio). Flying IFR-equipped planes, I've had one of the COM radios suddenly appear to have ceased transmitting - I switched to the other and all was fine, and the first appeared to recover later. A friend and I were flying to Oshkosh last August, and the alternator failed completely when we were not far from the field. By the time we noticed it, there was not enough energy in the battery to reach Wittman tower, so we shut off everything electrical, flew back north to the edge of Appleton's control zone, and got one call in to them explaining the problem. So far, all of these stories have had happy endings, but I fly only VFR at the moment. Particularly after the Oshkosh incident, having a battery-powered extra transceiver along seems like an EXCELLENT idea. Now if I can only find someone in Canada who sells them (assuming that they have even been approved for use here).
cfiaime (12/30/82)
Something that was mentioned earlier about the lost communications for IFR no longer works. The old triangle pattern is no longer recognized as a valid notification for lost comm. This brings a bit of a problem if you lose both communications and navigation. (I lost both comms in a Cessna 310 due to a static discharge through the audio switching panel. Number 1 nav also went inop.) Your best bet is still a hand held or battery powered comm radio. Lacking that, squawking 7700/7600 (if you have an electrical system left) is almost as good. If you don't have a backup transmitter/reciever you should make very sure that there is VFR weather close by to give you an out. The problem with getting a backup radio for the occaisional IFR flyer is money. The fool things cost from $500 to $1000. Unless I fly IFR a lot, this is quite expensive insurance. Here we are, caught between the proverbial rock and hard place. This lost comm discussion also brings to mind other systems failures, such as instrument failures and vacuum failures. Any comments on the joys of staying current on partial panel? Jeff Williams BTL - IH
larson (03/09/83)
#R:tekchips:-16400:sri-unix:4000002:000:503 sri-unix!larson Feb 14 19:28:00 1983 I remember an accident prevention specalist from the Long Beach GADO telling of an experiment they ran. They took a rental plane (Warrier, 172, or something like that) and went out over the Los Angeles area. They started flying triangles (both ways) and listening on the radio. Nothing. (They did it for several hours!) They tried the radar chaff with somewhat worse results -- it all blew back into the cabin. Apparently, both have been removed from the list of recommended procedures. Alan